Okay people, whether you like Michael Moore or not if you’re an American and you care even the slightest little bit about the rights and freedoms laid out in your constitution, you need to get upset about this … Walt Disney have forbidden Miramax (who are a fully owned Disney subsidiary) from distributing Michael Moore’s Faranheit 911. That’d be the film that points out the Bush family’s business connections within the arab world, including to the family of Osama Bin Laden, and criticeses Bush’s manipulation of the media post 9-11 to further his own agenda. And why has Disney gotten involved? Because they’re afraid that Jeb Bush – that’d be George’s brother who also happens to be governor of Florida – will repeal the tax breaks they receive on their Florida operations, including the Disney World theme park. Following the chain here? Moore makes a film criticising the president. President’s brother leans on Michael Eisner. Eisner squelches film. This is brutal, absolutely brutal, and should not be tolerated regardless of your political leanings.
You can read Moore’s response here and the New York Times’ article about it here.
And as I’ve said elsewhere Iraq has flat out nothing whatsoever to do with 9-11. I have no problem whatsoever supporting the actions in Afghanistan, but Iraq is a totally different matter. The status of Iraq does not now and never has had any bearing whatsoever on American freedom. They have never been a threat to American soil. They had no involvement with 9-11 and Hussein has never had any ties with Bin Laden. If anything as a secular leader in the Arab world Hussein would have presented a very likely target for Al-Queada.
There’s a very simple reason why the US forces have not found any WMDs or anything to tie Iraq to 911. That is because there is nothing to find. And, bluntly, there is no chance in hell that Bush did not know this before moving in.
If I were an American right now I’d be more than a little upset that Bush is wasting time, money, energy and lives on this farcical excercise in Iraq while completely ignoring the fact that Bin LAden is alive and well and freely setting up training camps along the Afghanistan / Pakistan border again.
As a Canadian, I don’t see American soldiers as fellow ‘brothers and sisters’, just poor shlubs fighting a weak president’s war for oil or corporate interests or to get revenge for daddy or probably a whole host of petty reasons. Somehow, I doubt that Iraqui civilians see them as ‘brothers and sisters’ either, considering that it’s their literal brothers and sisters that are dying daily. Yes, he did ‘something’, but that hardly makes it right, and where are you getting ‘lying’ re. Moore? As Bubba and others have pointed out, the reason why Moore’s weight is brought up, his relative wealth, his supposed mistreatment of employees in the past, etc., is because the Right can’t disprove his allegations. In fact, as has also been repeatedly pointed out here and elsewhere, most of his points have already been well-established in other media (i.e. business links between Bin Ladens and Bushes, etc.). Moore draws it all together and gives us a sense of just how horrible the war (or any war) actually is and collates the information re. Bush that we should already know from disparate sources. All movies are edited, and yes it was edited to support his point, just as, say, Colin Powell’s speech to the U.N. was ‘edited’ to support his (false) argument re. the need to go to war. Enough rant, must go to work. Argh, Americans….
Against Bush or not our brothers and sisters are fighting for our freedom. They are over there making sure that we have a safe place to work and live. This movie not only will contribute to our country appearing weak but it shatters the unity we had after 9-11. This is not the time or place to ridicule the very people that you asked to do something about the trade center. Well he did something and now that our country needs us the most we allow and support something like this. Many of the things you will see in this movie were EDITED to appear the way Moore wants you to think things happended. I fully agree with Freedom of speech but realize that you the media and celebrities have such a strong voice that even when you think you are doing the right thing by lying to get your point across you are in fact slapping your own country in the face. Like I said we are getting justice for what was done to us and Bush is trying to make sure that more of our family members do not lose their lives like those in 9-11! Don’t support people that are trying to make us look weak to other countries. It is time we pull together as we once did! God Bless America!
After having read all the comments and remarks available here I still find that everything Mr. Moore and his cohordes say, is always backed up with facts with should at least raise an hint of …..what is it the free courts of states are so fond of saying…..reasonable doubt, that he is not simply pulling these things out of his rear end. I mean lets make a comperasom, Michael Moore has provided more facts and evidance to back up his position and statements than your beloved Mr Dubya did to take your country to war and the rest of the world into a new era of dangers and complications…..and Mr. Moore is just trying to express his oppinion, so if there is a reason why he is a lying bag of shit, Then Mr. Bush and all of his puppeters are one giant mountain of high concentrated diareea.
Ladies and gentlemen I hereby submit that NoDonkey has just provided an absolutely textbook definition of the phrase ‘self-defeating’.
Unbridled hatred and paranoid delusions. Indeed.
And I love how all the Moore bashers immediately zoom in on his weight while seldom talking about actual content …
The tinfoil hatted moonbats are barking, again in favor of obese psycho/sociopath Michael Moore.
An absurd conspiracy theory regarding “banning” the distribution of this absurd conspiracy theory propoganda piece.
I favor as many people as possible seeing this abortion – as well exposure regarding what sort of people believe this absolute piece of trash, and what candidate for President they support. Same thing for the freakshow protests that will accompany the RNC Convention in NYC – give these violently hallucinating flower children as much airtime as they like.
The more the loony left is actually exposed for what they are, the less the media can hide their unbridled hatred for America and their paranoid delusions.
It’s a wonder that because Disney has decided not to produce porn, that they are not being accused of trying to crush the rights of the porn industry to convey their ideas/ entertainment. It’s a gamble in the entertainment industry. Many films are shut down as they proceed, because they are not what they were expected to be when the rights were purchased and the intial investments in production were allocated. Michael Moore is notorious for his personaly motivated and manipulated “documentaries.” To honor his films in this genre has been an insult to documentary films. But as entertainment, they can make money. Disney was not prepared to be in the middle of partisan politics because of that gamble during this time in America. The first quote to attach tax protection worries came from Moore’s people. This is how the conspiracy theory starts. It’s the basis of this movie as well. Again, ill conceived theories, bending “facts”, and re-writing parts of history are being packaged as documentary. And those that want to hear a version of “truth” are now complaining about rights as though Disney does not have a right to say no as much as Moore to release his film.
The Weinsteins are actually buying it out personally so that Disney / Miramax will be completely uninvolved … looks like it’ll end up with Focus or Newmarket eventually …
An agreement has been meet between Disney and Miramax, allowing Miramax to by the rights an find a third party to distribute. Read this link. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040513/323/eti3b.html
Aint It Cool has posted the mailing Moore just sent out to his mailing list explaining his end of the situation in more detail … here’s the link … http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=17525
“…In April of 2003, I signed a deal with Miramax, a division of the Walt Disney Co., to finance and distribute my next movie, Fahrenheit 9/11. (The original financier had backed out; I will tell that story at a later date.) In my contract it is stated that Miramax will distribute my film in the U.S. through Disney’s distribution arm, Buena Vista Distribution. It also gives Miramax the rights to distribute and sell the movie around the world….
To read the whole article go to: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php
Moore openily admitted that Clinton was just as bad as Bush, but because he was charming got away with it. Clinton set Bush up for falls by pushing through policies in his last few months of office that he know Bush would have to veto. Clinton basically did nothing much for most of his term of office until he knew his time was up. Moore is also openily critical of the Democratic party, stating “they are a sorry excuse for an opposition”. I honestly believe he does what he does not for financial gain (he never even expected to get Stupid White Men published and certainly never expected to make much from it!), although I’m sure it helps, but to fight for what he believes in! The American (and may I add our British) so called “Democratic” systems are a disgrace, and the world needs people like Moore to make people aware of this. Moore’s view transend pure party hatred, and are more focused on revising a political system to make it truely democratic.
Christ this is heavy stuff for a Friday afternoon. Someone post a nice easy going subject like “Who is the sexiest Charlies Angel?” or “Whats the best British film of all time?” Have a good weekend everyone.
Michael Moore could be described as a ‘hater’ if everyone else is also described that way. He doesn’t appear to ‘hate’ the people he opposes but rather their actions. Conservatives get mad and say he ‘hates’ Bush. He hates what Bush has done, yes. But, for those who only read what other people have to say and don’t check out the person themselves, he also hated what Clinton did. Ever watch ‘The Awful Truth’, Moore’s TV show? He turfed Clinton frequently. I disagree with him on a few issues but I generally find him to be balanced and angry at poor decisions made by conservatives or liberals.
joel
PS Bubba, do you still have your Captain Planet videos and toys? Man, that show was rad.
I do find Moore’s style of writing and critic to be somewhat heavy handed. He seems to breakdown each item and finds no grey area. Each item is “black or white”, not racially I mean metorphorically (or however it is spelt!). Politics isn’t always as simple as that. However, I do agree with most of views and believe he provides adequate supporting material. Moore has hit a cord with many people both in the States and here in Britain (his books topped our best seller charts for months). Not many people have spoken out against a leader like Moore has, especially one that seemingly knows what he is on about.
There can be no doubt that the Whitehouse and good old George “let em fry” Bush are scared of this movie, regardless of the why and wherefores behind Miramax’s decision, scared of Moore and scared of losing the election!
I do think Moore does like a “publicity stunt” as his Oscar speech proves, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he wasn’t well aware that Miramax where not distributing the film. However, anything that underminds Bush’s administration, gets him out of office and saves the world from this execution happy, war hungury, world politing, idiotic, evil tyrant can only be a good thing!
Jane – the Captain Planet reference raises your post above the level of most right-wing knee jerk but I find it more than a little amusing when people beahve as though freedom of speech applies only to people who share their opinions. So no, I won’t shut up. And I have no interest in being alarmist (though I DO find alarmist writing very amusing which is why I’ve been tracking right wing reaction to this story over on http://www.freerepublic.com and http://www.conservativepetitions.com … you’d think Moore was melting down babies to make candles the way they’re carrying on over there) I just object strongly to government interference in private matters. Which, incidentally, is a traditional Republican position.
You’ve been had, folks.
Moore knew a year ago that this movie wouldn’t be distributed by Disney/Miramax. Still, he cried about censorship on his website, while claiming he was told “yesterday” that it wouldn’t be distributed. On CNN, he told a new story: he’s known since last year that Disney wouldn’t distribute it. Miramax people claim the company only had a deal with Moore to help finance it, not distribute. At least Miramax has its story straight. Moore’s changes daily.
Moore and Disney. One makes poor movies, and one makes millions — they deserve each other. This thing has “publicity stunt” written all over it. F-9/11 will be out by the election — Moore obviously has one intent with this movie, and he’ll make sure it is done.
Oh lord have mercy on us. Some people have the “gift” for creating hysteria out of nothing by writing alarmist prose. You do not. You sound like a tantrum throwing 10 year old who has not figured out that life is not fair. Still watching “Captain Planet” re-runs there buddy? Stick to reviewing movies or shut up.
Senate’s getting involved …
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/film/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000502965
Not to mention that since the Gov’t has already squelched two companies from releasing the film, there is no reason they won’t try to stop the film with a third company.
If this film is not released, that is sending a very dangerous message that content will have to be approved by the administration before a film is released.
Actually, Rodney, it’s not within Disney’s rights to refuse distribution to this film. When they bought Miramax it was part of the contract that they would distribute ALL of Miramax’s films with certain VERY explicitly stated exceptions – i.e. Disney will not distribute an NC17 film – and none of those exceptions apply here. Disney is putting themselves into breach of contract with the Weinsteins by refusing this film, which is probably not the wisest idea considering they’re already losing their deal with Pixar and there’s a growing group of people within Disney calling for Eisner’s head …
And as I’ve already said a couple of times, this wouldn’t be an issue at all if it were purely a business move … this is worth getting worked up over because of the political interference. There’s no doubt that the film will be released (and it’ll happen during election season to capitalize on the free hype, no doubt, just as the Passion was timed to cash in on Easter), probably by Newmarket, the problem is that by the time somebody puts it out it’ll be the third distributor attached to the film with the first two both pulling out due to direct political interference. And that’s a problem. If the film doesn’t breach obscenity or slander laws the government has no business interfering with it whatsoever and even if it did it certainly shouldn’t be the president getting involved.
Please don’t be fooled by press reports and press releases with Michael Moore and Harvey Weinstein crying that they’re god given rights are being taken away by Jeb Bush and Florida tax cuts.
Mr. Weinstein and his brother just don‚Äôt want to have to go to another distributor, and that’s the part they don‚Äôt tell you in the major media. They’re a bunch of whiny and greedy hypocrites that don’t want to have to make a new deal with a willing distributor of Moore‚Äôs ‚ÄúDocumentary‚Äù. Using that word in itself is a joke being played on you by Michael Moore, but is also another discussion for another time.
Before everyone gets their panties in a wad that Disney is somehow trying to “silence” Michael Moore, please know that Weinstein, Miramax and Michael Moore are perfectly free to find ANOTHER distributor other than Disney to release their propaganda.
Don’t be so stupid as to think that this movie is anything more than that. Even if you’re a George W. and Republican and conservative hater, please don’t be that naive. I didn’t vote for the guy either, but I’m not in the Michael Moore anger and hater club. He‚Äôs an incredible and funny guy, but he‚Äôs also a hater. Too bad.
His vitriol and rage and hate is just as bad as the extreme wing nuts on the right who HATED Bill Clinton. Can’t you see that?
No one’s saying they CAN’T put out the movie, Disney is just saying THEY don’t want to and that’s perfectly within THEIR rights of free speech. Miramax, Weinstein, Moore are all HUGE and VOCAL and ACTIVE supporters of the DNC and they HATE George W. Bush.
Please try to identify hate no matter what side it’s on.
Even if it’s people you agree with, it’s bad. Really bad.
Rodney Lee
Anyone who does not see this as a free speech issue needs to see a doctor quickly. You are going blind.
Disney does not have the right to refuse any sort of business it wants. There are these little thigns called contracts, business agreements, legal niceties which cannot be simply ignored on a prejudicial whim. Miramax funded this film with a distribution agreement in place. Disney blocking distribution may or may not be legally sound, but it is without a doubt an attack on freedom of expression.
Disney is not refusing to release the film because it would tank and be bad business. Au contraire: Michael Moore’s last film was the best-selling documentary of all time. People will line up around the block to see this film as well.
No, Disney is refusing to distribute this film because of what it says, who is says its about, and how it says it. There’s not even a dispute over accuracy or facts: it’s all about content and presentation.
Disney’s move is clearly politically motivated. In fact, they admit as much:
Anyone who thinks it’s “bad business” to distribute a controversial film should check out the box office take for Mel Gibson’s controversial film. Looking at Dinsey’s plummet over the last few years, it’s clear that almost no one over there knows what’s “in the interests” of the company.
Disney has done the numbers on this and has likely calculated that whatever gain they might get in Florida (or federal) political favors is more valuable than the $50-100 million they might get from Moore’s film. Certainly they decided that incurring the wrath of the Bush family, who are business partners with the family of an international terrorist after all, is unwise.
The White House has made its gamble to protect the flailing and failing image of the worst President in modern history. Disney can likely hold this film up until after the election, which is obviously their real intent.
As for freedom and all that: we’ll see how bad things are in America. That many of you have already been inclined to call this simply a business move, to claim it is not censorship and not anti-freedom, tells me that America and Americans are already headed down the wrong path.
The film is a jury selection at Cannes (only the second documentary to have that honor, the first one was Bowling for Columbine).
We may be seeing a replay of the “Brazil” controversy when the L.A. Film critics embarressed the studio into releasing the film by naming it the best film of the year. Can you say “Palme D’Or”?
Nope, but that’s not what’s happening. If I owned a business and a subsidiary was planning on releasing something critical of the president so the president had his brother call me and tell me if I released it then he would up my tax bill astronomically and just generally make life as difficult as possible to do business in the state which the brother happens to run THAT would be a violation of my first amendment rights. Or at least it would if I were American. And that is what’s happening here.
If this was a pure business move between Disney and Miramax I’d think Disney needed to pull their heads out of their asses because this is a film that’s going to make someone a lot of money but that would be the end of it. But it isn’t. This is a President exerting and abusing his power, and that of his governor-brother, to prevent someone from saying something negative about him in public. It’s questionable whether what Bush doing is illegal, but it’s certainly distasteful, unethical and it sets a horribly bad precedent. Do you want your president to be able to manipulate and generally put the screws to the media whenever he sees fit to promote whatever ends he wants? The right wing is generally chuckling over this but can you imagine what their response would have been if Clinton did something comparable to a right wing voice during his time in power?
Put Moore and this film aside for a moment – this is an issue that should transcend politics. If, as so many like to say, America is a democracy and if, as so many like to say, freedom of speech and freedom of the press is a cornerstone of democracy then when an elected politician openly uses his power in ways well outside of his elected mandate for the express purpose of preventing any criticism of himself this is a bad thing. A very, very bad thing. A George Orwell, behind the Iron Curtain sort of thing. And it shouldn’t be tolerated no matter who is doing it to who.
Why should I get upset when one business prohibits a subsidiary from doing something? If I personally owned a business and the people running the business wanted to release a product that I didn’t want released, would you somehow feel that I was violating there first amendment rights?
If it turns out that Disney made this decision without any influence from government then yes, you’re right Paul, it’s not a freedom of speech matter. They would, however, have to justify why a studio that hasn’t had a hit film in a good while would turn down something likely to make them a hundred mil or so at the next shareholder’s meeting. If, however, the information is correct and this decision was based on political pressure from the Bush family then it absolutely is a freedom of speech matter. The President has NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER interfering with people saying whatever they want to say about him unless they are in some way breaking the law, in which case he should be dealing with it openly in the courts. And whether he has in this instance or not George has definitely taken an interest in squishing this film as was made clear when he personally saw to it that Icon Productions (the original company dealing with it) dropped it from their slate …
It’s a business decision, not a freedom of speech issue. Does Moore have the right to say what he wants to say? Absolutely. Does that mean Disney is obligated to support or it? Hell no.
It looks kind of bad that the president is supposedly calling in favours to have the distribution crushed but it’s hardly a consitutional issue. And Moore knew a year ago that Disney wanted nothing to do with the film. Why is it a scandal now? Because Moore knows the film will be distributed eventually and this is great free publicity.
I don’t really see this as a freedom of speech issue. Whatever their reasons, Disney are as entitled to decide that they don’t want to be involved with a film as anyone else.
Furthermore, Disney are not suppressing the film – Miramax are free to find another US distributor. Obviously not their preferred option as this would reduce their revenue from the film.
What this story does demonstrate is that the idea that Miramax is an “independent” film company is complete nonsense.
The main issue is the effort by Disney to suppress a movie and thus suppress freedom of speech. Walt Disney would be ashamed!
To suggest that American media bias is “always left” is so ridiculous as to almost be unworthy of a response (hello Fox news, Rush Limbaugh, et al.)
Toronto readers, party at the Gem in November if Bush loses. If he wins, we might just want to get drunk regardless
A little something I found in the AICN story on this … not often they go all high-brow, so when they do it’s worth repeating …
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. ~ Theodore Roosevelt (1918)”
Actually, I take part of that back … the tax break quote comes from Moore’s agent who attributes that info directly back to Eisner … the Disney quotes are:
“We advised both the agent and Miramax in May of 2003 that the film would not be distributed by Miramax,” said Zenia Mucha, a company spokeswoman, referring to Mr. Moore’s agent. “That decision stands.”
“It’s not in the interest of any major corporation to be dragged into a highly charged partisan political battle,” this executive said.
If that timeline’s correct it means that Disney tried to pull the plug on this a solid year ago, which would be pretty much right after Miramax got the rights from Icon …
Icon won’t do it. George Jr. gave Gibson a personal call when they were originally attached to it … Gibson’s not involved because the President doesn’t want to be. So that’s twice the President has gotten personally involved to make sure that a private citizen’s views and opinions are not heard. Which is a MASSIVE abuse of power.
Laura – if you read the Times article you’ll see the Disney people being directly quoted as saying they dropped it for fear of losing their tax breaks. This is a case of the government putting financial pressure on a company to shut them up, which as I’ve already said is a HUGE abuse of power.
Whether you like Moore or not the fact is that as long as he’s not commiting slander or lible (which nobody has suggested he is) he has the right to say whatever he wants without government interference.
That there are business ties between Bush, Cheney and the Bin Laden family is undisputed. Watching the government scramble around to stop this film from being seen only makes me think there’s something to Moore’s take on it – that there are things in there that Bush doesn’t want people to see, and also that Moore has his facts straight because if he was just pulling this stuff out of his ass Bush would have him in court and would have the film buried so deep that nobody would ever see it, anywhere, under any circumstances. That he’s trying to squelch it through back channels says to me that a) he’s scared of the film and b) he has no legal recourse to stop it.
I say let Mel Gibson’s ICON Pictures and NewMarket Films take another crack at it.. they just made the entire Solar System’s money from the Passion, why not?
Uh huh…guys please remember the source of this. How about the manipulation of the media to their personal agenda which is always left? Let’s not be hypocrits children. Anyone hear Disney’s response yet? Someone will release this movie but I guarantee you I wouldn’t darken its doorstep.