obviously struck a nerve somewhere there john…..

and you say that i rant??

hahahaha

I never said YOU said those things… but they are main contention points of the discussion you jumped in on. I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear.

As for doubting my legal background, feel free to do so. It’s what I was doing full time before doing The Movie Blog full time… and it’s what I went to school for (After Bible College that is).

Please read my post again. I never said New Line was about to sink due to the failure of TGC. I never said New Line bowed their knee in desperation to Jackson. I clearly said that both sides probably made decent concessions. I never said that the failure of one film caused a legal move; I instead speculated that financial issues for both parties (the failure of TGC, the dumping of HALO) COULD have motivated both sides toward coming to their mutually beneficial agreement. I never insisted on this cause and effect relationship; the last 2 words of my post were “VERY possible.”

I never referred to either circumstance as “catastrophic” to either party. But either event could easily have entered into the equation for either or both sides. To insist otherwise, as you do, is close-minded to the point of imbecility.

I’m starting to have real doubts about your legal experience, and your ability to read posts.

New Line has been trying for years to get Jackson to negotiate and he has consistently refused. New Line didn’t just jump to the table recently, they’ve been trying to get to the table for years.

Yes, TGC is a failure… HOWEVER, the while idea that New Line is about to sink because it’s losing $XXX of dollars is nonsense since at this point it many not even lose ANY money (I think it will… but it’s being portrayed here as if New Line is about to lose $200 million and in desperation bowed a knee to Jackson… this is clearly false). Yes, it’s still a failure… yes, it’s still a disapointment… but NO… it’s clearly not the financial bomb that some are making it out to be. I wish it was… but it’s not.

Call it a failure. Fine
Call it a let down. Fine
Call it whatever. Fine
But when you’re basing an argument that the financial disaster of a film is causing a legal move, when in reality the numbers are alive enough to warrant a suggestion that it may still yet break even by the end of the day… then you’re going into nonsense territory.

And you said:

This continues until one side (or both) decide that the whole thing needs to get DONE already, often due to circumstances OUTSIDE the nogotiations that nevertheless have real meaning to one or both parties (such as the perceived failure of TGC).

That’s just not true. It happens on occasion (rare), but when a catastrophic event happens (which as I’ve shown has NOT happened here) to one side, that can just draw the process out even more, as the stronger side remaneuvers to try to take advantage of the state of the other party.

Also, you’re neglecting a very important point here. New Line can, and would make The Hobbit without Jackson. They don’t need him. It’ would still make truck loads of money even if Uwe Boll directed it (not as much clearly… but it’s financial success is unquestionable).

The nonsense scenario being painted suggests that New Line was about to loose billions, and can’t make The Hobbit without Jackson. Wrong.

This deal was already in the works. TGC had nothing to do with this whatsoever, and IF TGC was going to have an effect on this, New Line would wait until the dust settled on it to assess how much trouble or damage TGC caused… not jump the gun and make long lasting legal decisions based on 2 weeks. That’s fantasy.

This is just a simple situation of two grown men (Shaye and Jackson) and their representation, acting like rational people, having a long drawn out conflict and after finally starting to talk worked their way towards a mutually beneficial agreement. To suggest otherwise is pure unsubstantiated conjecture that doesn’t line up with the facts.

John, I’m sorry, but I have to side with alfie on this one (I can’t believe I just said that).

“TGC will no doubt NOT meet expectations and will no doubt lose money, but the numbers show it’s not going to end up being the massive turkey you’re making it out to be.”

If it’s hyped as much as TGC was, and it loses money, then it’s a massive turkey. Period.

“TGC (which I didn’t even like all that much) was no more touted as the next Lord of the Rings than Narnia was…”

Actually, it was. The studio made a big deal out of it in press releases, albeit in measured doses. They didn’t beat us over the head with it, but it was definitely there.

“FACT: New Line still doesn’t know how well or how much of a failure TGC will end up being”

Are you being obtuse on purpose? Audience tracking let the studio know 2 months ago that this movie would not be the hit they hoped. With the week 2 box office down 65% (a massive drop) from Week 1, the writing’s on the wall. If you have to count on DVD revenue to make a profit, or just to break even, then the operative word here (for a film of such high expectations; remember, they were hoping for a blockbuster trilogy based on the 3 novels) is “failure”.

“Also, any agreement they have achieved NOW has been in the works for months.”

True. However, if you’ve been involved with contract negotiations as much as I have (if you can throw your past experience in someone’s face, so can I…by the way, I was offended on alfie’s behalf by your “Matlock” comment. It was beneath you, John. Alfie was totally wrong about the whole “who settles” thing, and you were right, just have more class about it, as you usually do…) then you know how this really works: both sides make minor concessions, using them as leverage to make new demands. This typically eats up the vast majority of the months required for these negotiations, this minor give-and-take with nothing really substantial getting done. This continues until one side (or both) decide that the whole thing needs to get DONE already, often due to circumstances OUTSIDE the nogotiations that nevertheless have real meaning to one or both parties (such as the perceived failure of TGC). It looks to my experienced eye that New Line jumped back into negotiations over the last 2 weeks or so and make some decent concessions (Jackson probably made some concessions as well due to the whole HALO thing, but I’ll wager NL started this ball rolling) to get ink on paper. So the vast majority of the work got done in the last week or so in a months-long negotiation. THAT’S how it usually works. So did the performance of TGC have an effect on these negotiations? VERY possible.

You said:

“jackson was not getting paid 150 million dollars for halo….”

Ummm… go check that again. Part of the agreement he had with Bungie was that his companies gets the production contract (WETA Digital and WETA Workshop). It was the biggest single movie contract in the companies history. And it’s GONE.

Also, you really need to learn how to read. I CLEARLY said that I doubt Jackson losing Halo was the cause, but that it was more likely the cause than New Line’s Golden Compass results since they have been negotiating a deal since before the started of October and Golden Compass just came out now

You also said:

it is fairly obvious for all to see, except of course the inhabitants of the magical fantasy world in which you live, that new line have settled john.

Ummm… according to what? That’s great that you throw around words like that Alfie. Back them up. Fact of the matter is that for years Jackson refused to negotiate with New Line outside of court. And yet here we are… outside of court and an agreement has been settled. Hmmmmmm… I wonder which one budged??? (for the record, it’s obvious they both budged)

You also said:

and don’t even try and spin it that compass is a success

Once again you need to learn how to read. I simply pointed out that TGC is not yet the unspoken bomb you make it out to me considering the production budget was $180 million and currently in it’s 3rd week NA and second week World Wide it’s already made $100 million of that back and it still hasn’t opened in all markets, it still is #1 in a bunch of markets and still has it’s DVD life ahead of it. TGC will no doubt NOT meet expectations and will no doubt lose money, but the numbers show it’s not going to end up being the massive turkey you’re making it out to be. Insult, rant and rave all you want about it… but the numbers are right there.

the accuser can’t settle without being offered a settlement from the accused.

I’m sorry Alfie if this sounds like it’s outside of the scope of good hearted debate… but are you REALLY trying to tell me how the legal system works? How many days of litigation trial have you been in court for? How many litigation cases have you worked? Holy shit Alfie, you might know more about the universe than me… but trust me, you don’t know the law or the legal system as well as I do. Quite simply you are wrong. Half the time (or more) the accuser starts the offer of Settlement process. That’s just fact. Whatever you think you know about the law from watching Mattlock isn’t correct. But even that’s irrelevant, since 90% of the time the first offer (from which ever side) isn’t accepted and a “offer-counter offer” process starts until a mutually acceptable deal is struck.

Also, any agreement they have achieved NOW has been in the works for months. It’s just that simple. I don’t know how to put this any more clearly. We knew from the Entertainment Weekly and CNN reports way back at the start of October that Jackson and New Line began talking again outside of court (which was something Jackson said he wouldn’t do) and they were already starting to negotiate a settlement. This has been in the works for months Alfie. It’s right there in front of you. It’s in black and white.

http://www.themovieblog.com/2007/10/a-peter-jackson-directed-hobbit-closer

You also said:

“the studio who took you to middle earth now takes you to a new world”

So whenever a trailer says “From the director of…” or “From the team that brought you…” they’re saying this new movie is the next THAT movie? It’s called marketing. TGC (which I didn’t even like all that much) was no more touted as the next Lord of the Rings than Narnia was, except that the studio behind it got to use the name in their promotion. Not that I give a shit about Golden Compass at all and can lose $500 million for all I care.

Sorry Alfie, the picture you’re trying to create isn’t reality.

FACT: Jackson and New Line have already been negotiating for months.

FACT: New Line still doesn’t know how well or how much ofa failure TGC will end up being

FACT: Even if New Line and Jackson hadn’t already started negotiating a deal (which they did) and even if New Line already knew the final dollar amounts for TGC (which they don’t) and even if New Line would draft a first offer to Jackson in 2 weeks (which they couldn’t) and even if Jackson’s legal team just decided to sign that offer without looking at it and making a better counter offer for themselves (which they wouldn’t), and even if New Line wasn’t holding all the cards by still holding all the rights to the Hobbit Movie and could and would make it without Jackson anyway (which they do), then your little fictitious scenario of New Line seeing TGC results and rushing to their phones to get their lawyers to draft some kind of full surrender to Jackson couldn’t work even if both sides wanted it to.

Go keep name calling, keep ranting, and keep insisting the sky is purple. But the facts are the facts. You’re free to believe anything you want, but the bottom line is that TGC box office results had NOTHING to do with this deal. If the deal was struck 3 months from now, I might side with you on this…. but as it stands, you’re dead incorrect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK6MDIEQjMg

so that trailer for the golden compass that I saw that began WITH THE IMAGE OF A FUCKING GOLD RING FLOATING with titles announcing that “the studio who took you to middle earth now takes you to a new world” was not comparing it to rings??of course it was….that is how they sold it plain and simple. of course you will spin it as you have a complete inability to ever accept you are wrong is hilarious considering you nearly always are.

jackson was not getting paid 150 million dollars for halo….

it is fairly obvious for all to see, except of course the inhabitants of the magical fantasy world in which you live, that new line have settled john.

and again the accuser can’t settle without being offered a settlement from the accused.
the accuser can accept a settlement or give a figure of what they will accpet as a settlement but the accused ultimately offers the settlement.

again whether you like it or not they need him more than he needs them.his career is hardly in trouble. one project fell over…one that he was merely producing and you act as if that was his reason to beg new line to let him produce. I am sorry but you couldn;t be more wrong if you tried. (and sometimes you are so incredibly wrong that i do actually believe you are trying to be wrong

but then again i forget that you live in the land of fantasia where the shy is always purple and the unicorns sing for the little gold fairies…..

and don’t even try and spin it that compass is a success….its a flop…in fact it is a disaster for new line. they have sunk a ton of money into this thing.it is farily common knowledge that the head of new lines job is in jeopardy because of new lines abysmal track record of late.

the head of mgm has a brain and realises that when a guy delivers you a franchise that makes billions and billions and dollars you do whatever you can to get him on board when you try to further that franchise.

new line have spent well over 200 million on the golden compass and it is a financial flop. there will not be any sequels. its as over as singers superman “franchise”