I think the podcast by the Meeting House, which covers the Prince of Peace God of War covers this.

To look it up go to iTunes go to the store search “The Meeting House Roundtable”, click the podcast shown, scroll down to the podcast called “Prince of Peace . . . God of War” and download it.

Pacifism is not the same as doing nothing.

Trusting God up to a point, is not trusting God.

Your next documentary might be on global economics and the concentration of wealth vs. Jesus economics.

I would argue that Christ was not a pacifist, and no only for the incident in the temple (which was discussed very interestingly, I might add, in the video). I would reference the latter portion of Luke 22, in which Jesus literally tells his disciples to carry a weapon at all costs, even if it means selling everything else they own. Here are the verses:

—–

35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or extra clothing, did you need anything?”

“No,” they replied.

36 “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! 37 For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels.’[d] Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.”

38 “Look, Lord,” they replied, “we have two swords among us.”

“That’s enough,” he said.

—–

Why would Jesus place such an urgency in the carrying of a personal “firearm” if He did not intend for them to use it, if threatened? It seems as if He would have said, from a pacifist’s perspective, “you will be counted as rebels, and some may come after you to harm you – let them do so.”

I don’t post this to say that the core intent of the documentary (pacifism) was wrong, as I genuinely think the documentary brought up excellent points for both. It did make me reconsider how I exercise my faith as a Christian, which speaks toward the credibility and effectiveness of the work. I suppose in the end, I tend to agree with the final statement of Dr. Victor Shepherd. If witnessing a horrible act while having the ability to prevent it, how could I do nothing? Christ encouraged his disciples to pack heat. I don’t believe He did that for them not to use if, if the need absolutely arose.

But we can disagree. :) Documentaries like this one should spark both debate and mutual respect.

I can’t believe there have been 49 comments and not one person has disagreed with the pacifist conclusion yet, so I’ll put myself out there:

I’m a Christian and I don’t believe all killing is morally wrong. I *do* believe in a lifestyle of nonviolence. I very much appreciate that you addressed the issue of the Old Testament and the unity of God’s revelation, as well as the issue of Jesus’ interactions with Roman soldiers. You didn’t change my mind completely, but they were good discussions.

I tend to agree with what Brian McLaren said sometime in the second half of the film: I’m troubled by both “extremes,” those who embrace war as a good solution to our problems, and those who think it is immoral to be a soldier or even a policeman. Of course, it is easy to try and be a “moderate;” we all like to feel like we are navigating betweeen extremes. On the other hand, some of us like to feel like we are taking an uncompromising stand. Anyway, that’s neither here nor there.

This was a great film, and you got great speakers for the most part. In case you ever do another one, I would have liked to see more discussion of what kinds of police and peacekeeping forces are legitimate according to Christian pacifist views. I know some pacifists reject all violence unconditionally, while others draw a distinction between police work / self-defense and actual warfare. I’d also like to see some more variety in the just-war theorists, and maybe some Old Testament scholars.

Anyway, rather than get into the meat of the middle of the film, I’ll post one question for folks to ponder here who have been so touched by the final story of the Bulgarian patriarch: does that story really argue for a complete rejection of all violence as immoral? Does the “happy ending” not in fact rest on two counts of violence? That is, the story wouldn’t have ended that way if a), the SS soldiers had not been intimidated by the overwhelming presence of the crowds (that is, potential violence), and b), the Allies had not *won the war* before reinforcements could come to take away the Bulgarian Jews (that is, actual violence of the very kind condemned by most in the film). To me the patriarch’s stand is an inspiring story of courage, and exactly the way I believe Christ calls his followers to act. Yet there are other unseen characters in the story, the soldiers who are fighting the war many miles away; and I do not believe they are sinning by fighting it. Without the Allied soldiers who fought the war, Hitler’s men would have come back and killed all those Jews eventually, and many of the Christians too.

Obviously, a story does not settle the philosophical and theological points either way, but I wanted to add that to the discussion.

Thanks again for your work!

@Mike

Have an open mind dude, just because you cant see something doesn’t mean it’s not there.

Great film John