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I like a good gangster film or a thriller if they hold my interest and make some sense. The new Batman film is really bad on several counts: and I must say, aside from Heath Ledger's performance which is the only thing that kept me going, the rest is profligate, stupid, violent, unintelligible, a waste of time and much too much money, and potentially poison to young people's minds. It's a "can you top this" of vicious, destructive, glorification. YOu cannot compare Batman's supposed 'good' intentions with the sensational and craven Badness on the screen. I would have walked out after the first half hour if not to see how Heath Ledger handled the role. So much hype is not the substitute for a real plot, real acting (Christian Bale was a wooden, croaky disaster). I even felt embarrassed for Morgan Freeman.

I only skim read the article, but I think we are reading from the same page.

Dark Knight was a fairly good flick but had so many plots holes, and other short comings that it would never get more than a 7.5 out of ten from me.

Of course Heath's role made the film, but the hype over this film is out of control and contributed in no small part by his unfortunate passing away. I mean 9.8 on IMDB is just absurd.

The only thing which saved this film for me was the simmeringly hot underlying homereroticism between Batman and Joker.

(Type your comment here. Make sure you've read the commenting rules before doing so)Yeah this movie was way overhyped and had so many unrealistic parts like the joker shooting gordon in front of 100 cops and getting away --bullshit. i was also disturbed by the underlying homoeroticism between batman and joker.

also, jim in charolette, it was a fake batman who crashed into the window (with a carved joker smile) and daniel has already commented on your two-face coin rip-off comment, so i won't. of course this film has flaws, but i am always entertained by people who hear hype and immediately set out to dislike something that is generally loved.

Guys, I think John was right. There were a lot of things people say about TDK, and it turns up wrong. TDK was great. It was fun, brilliant, sophisticated AS A COMIC BASED MOVIE. That's all, you guys!! Keep it real. It rocks for making money and put itself on the top of IMDb. But it's not the darkest, the most violent, the BEST, no....

Jim, don't let the facts get in the way of your bashing of the movie. Two-Face has been flipping a coin since the 1940's in the comics. If anything, No Country For Old Men ripped off Two-Face, not the other way around. And another fact. The Dark Knight was done filming by the time No Country For Old Men came out in theaters, so they have absolutely no connection whatsoever other than the potential that Two-Face influenced that element of Anton Chigurh.

"Was anyone really surprised that the coin was two-headed and was not this act of ‘flipping the coin’ a direct rip-off of last year’s Oscar winning movie where ‘random chance’ was the theme?"

That is the line that made me realize you are joking. You are joking right?? You do realize Two Face is a comic book character who has been flipping coins long before No Country for Old men??

I mean fair enough if you don't like the film but you are kidding with that bit right?

Went to see Dark Knight last night. This was the worst movie of the year. With so much hype, you'd think this was the smartest, most thought-provoking movie ever made. But the dialog was simplistic and each scene was totally transparent. The only time the movie 'shocked' me was when the fake Joker slammed into the glass. And yes, the flying scenes were spectacular. But after 90 minutes I was begging for this movie to end. The DA character was so silly and so unnecessary that I was convinced the only reason he existed was because someone's friend who does SFX must have begged the director to let them work on this film. Was anyone really surprised that the coin was two-headed and was not this act of ‘flipping the coin’ a direct rip-off of last year’s Oscar winning movie where ‘random chance’ was the theme? Was anyone really surprised that Gordon wasn't dead? Has anyone else noticed how Maggie Gyllenhaal looks a lot like Miss Piggy? After seeing this film, my faith in America and the World took a nosedive - are we really as stupid as the trite dialogue in this movie?

Thanks john....for giving the movie the credit that it deserves. some fans out there are showering too much praise on an excellent movie...and in fact it's these hyper praises that trigger an Anti-The Dark Knight crowd....

Kudos for giving the movie the respect that it must be given

Thankjs john....for giving the movie the credit that it deserves. some fans out there are showering too much praise on an excellent movie...and in fact it's these hyper praises that trigger an Anti-The Dark Knight crowd....

Kudos for giving the movie the respect that it deserves.

YOUR ALL LAME, IT ROCKED THE SOCKS OFF MY FEET.

"Please don’t tell me The Dark Knight is a new Crime Drama classic with a straight face when a copy of Reservoir Dogs and The French Connection are sitting on the shelf behind us."

Ah, but that's where you're (tragically) wrong. For good or ill, superhero movies are the new gangster/cowboy/ninja movies.

http://thecurrent.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/iron-man-conquers-the-world.php

I've never been a huge fan of Batman (Make Mine Marvel) but I enjoyed the Batman films, except Shumacher's of course.

And I hate say this but I agree, it was a good movie but nowhere near the instant classic the so called experts and internet who haws are proclaiming. I thought the movie was a little bit too long and gotham looked totally different than it looked in the first movie and some of the dialog in the first half of the film between Dent and Dawes was cheesy.

I guess I like my Super Hero movies less gritty, I wanted real life, I wouldn't be reading comic books!

John!! OMG!!! you are a right agressive grumpy guts!!

#memorable..i meant to say lol

i myself have seen the darkknight and i have to agree that it is a good movie but certainly not superb.the acting was good..but the story though interesting was not rivoting.at certain parts of the movie it got a little far fetched.was it memorable? not really, and iam a batman fan, believe me.just like batman begins it was a very good movie as you are watching it but after its over you go on with your life, never to think about it again.no country fro men was a hell of a lot better and that is what a superb movie is.the main problem i find about d.k. is that even though the acting was good, i didnt care about any of the characters. nolan was trying to do so much in 2 half hours it was from one scene, one speech to another.just like spiderman it has a moral question to ask and it keeps driving that point in your head over and over through out the movie.there wasnt one time i felt suspenful thrill, horror, etc.bottom line, iam sorry to all die hard fans but i have to concure, it was above good..7.0 out of 10 but certainly not great and wet my pants emeorable.

It just hit #1 on IMDB's top 250 movies EVER. I liked it and had a great time viewing it, but this is really bizzare. I wasn't wearing anything revealing of being a geek, just in plain clothes, and the guy at the gas station asked me if I'd seen Dark Knight yet... In St. Louis the ONLY thing people ever mention in public is sports, and 90% of that is Baseball only.

Here's a list of 100 more accolades to laud the Dark Knight with.

http://tincage-lining.blogspot.com/2008/07/movie-dark-knight-part-one-hype.html

Why this article is Bullshit: You hype this movie just as much as anyone,

by sweetness, I meant coolness... not Bambi sweet.

I don't even care if the movie's good or not... I just want to live to see the day when Titanic get raped by another movie at the box office (although it is somewhat unlikely that TDK will acheive this). Come on, folks... Go see the movie twice or thrice. Shoot... See it four times just to make up for all of the elderly people who won't want anything to do with it.

Also, I'm going to back up John... Seriously... You can love something and still have a critique of it. Take your mothers for example... By the look of some of these posts (and posts on other websites), I'm just going to assume that some of your mothers try to get you to change the way you talk to/about other people (or try to get you to listen so you can understand what people are trying to get across to you). That doesn't mean they don't love you. They're just trying to convince you to better yourself...

Just because you want the movie to be the best thing ever doesn't mean it will be. I wanted X-Men 3 to be amazing, and then the Rush Hour guy took a piss on the script and let the Juggernaut say lines from a youtube video... There's not a doubt in my mind that TDK will be better than X-Men 3, but it's not going to be the best movie ever.

Why don't we all just assume that it's going to suck, then when we see it, we can be amazed and a little surprised by its sweetness.

Having not even seen the movie, I will say that reading reviews will make me biased. I just wait until it comes out on DVD if I see it at all.

John has had something up his rear since the whole movie blog getting bought thing. definitely takes himself really serious now. has become a contrarian of sorts, and and elitist at times. convinced of his superiority. this site is definitely not as fun as it used to be. i find myself coming here less and less. oh and we get it john, you used to be a lawyer. how many times do you work that in to one of your stories? unreal. go back and read some of your old work from a year or two ago, and try to be that guy again.

alfie@

how can you lie so much!!!!

" I was prepared to be let down prequel style but this is a complete film. it is a crime drama, it is a psychological drama, it is an action adventure film, it is a comic book movie…"

thanks so much for your "lies"alfie!!

im overhyped to see tdk too but here in japan i will have to wait 1 month more!!

when the movie comes out,since we bove share the same taste,i probably will be spreading the same "lies"

aniway!

FIRST SORRY FOR THE CAPLOCK"LOCKED",ITS A FULL JAPANESE (HAYKU)KEYBOARD IN MY JOB.

"Is Transformers the GREATEST popcorn film of all time? To me yes, to another no… but it IS a popcorn flick."

SO ITS A MOVIE BASED IN A 80S CARTOON TO SELL TOYS BUT IN YOUR OPINION IT IS "the most fun summer flick I’d ever seen "

SO FOR YOU IS BETTER THEN :RAIDER OR DIE HARD.

and thats cool because its subjective .

BUT WHEN SOMEONE USE THE SAME LOGIC TO EXPRESS HIM SELF ABOUT A MOVIE ABOUT A "detective"sitting another movies related to this theme its not subjective but its a lie?????

and this go for the other examples you did in your post as well.

think better and you will see this between your lines "i am a batman fan,but not in the same level as i am a transformers fan so "good "in batman is just good but in transformers "good"is awesome!!"

and when this logic go in reverse for a batman fan "its a lie"!!??

and i dont even care with tdk is the best thing since sliced bread for the other fanboys or not.

i just give to then the same freeedom to express their love for the move the same asv you!

Still waiting...

...and especially since I can quote you as saying this "I love the Dark Knight. But it is an action/adventure comic book movie." again, which you can't say. There are no "FACTS"! It's all just your opinion. Just admit that you were wrong about opinion/facts. Yes, it is a comic book film, based on a character, that first appeared in a Crime Fiction Comic, (the character being) created by Bob Kane. That comic being "Detective Comics"

you said.

“HOWEVER… in loving it, some people are saying things that just aren’t factually true

How dark it is (nothing compared to real dark movies)

How violent it is (nothing compared to real violent movies)

That it’s a crime drama classic (no)

The film is great. But it’s great for what it really is. There is no need for people to be making stuff up about it to justify why they like it so much.”

Factually true?

1. Where are the facts that it isn’t the “Darkest” PG-13 movie ever made? (not that I don’t doubt this statement, I just want proof to back up your sworn statement.) I think if you are going to state facts you need to provide them.

2. Where are the facts that it isn’t the “Violent” for a PG-13 rated movie? (not that I don’t doubt this statement, I just want proof to back up your sworn statement.) I think if you are going to state facts you need to provide them.

3. Where are the facts that it isn’t a “Crime Drama”?

This I have a major problem with. In my opinion it is a “Crime Drama”. Batman comics are “Crime Drama” comics. Batman is The Dark Detective. Batman first appeared in “Detective Comics”. It’s all about “Crime Drama”. That is a Fact. Prove it isn’t and I owe you some candy, my friend.

please provide links to your proof. i want dearly to eat my words on this one. Please prove: a) that Batman is not "The Dark Detective", b) that he didn't first appear in "Detective Comics". IF you can prove both of these things then you can go ahead and say that it isn't a "Crime Drama". He didn't appear in Action comics. That was Superman.

I think that you haven't answered because I'm right. There is no rebuttle because this is truely FACT. ...and not just your stated opinion. I think it's good that you have opinion. Just don't say that others opinions are wrong.

Most importantly don't say, "FACT" if you can't back it up. It seems to have caused you a lot of trouble and now you are avoiding it to not have to say that you are sorry. When you have a fan base on a blog you should be man enough to admit when you do something that isn't appropriate.

To quote Rha's Al Ghul, "I believe that you have given up sure footing for a killing strike."

It would seem that you are now swimming in icey waters.

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Hey John I have a question......Why So Serious???

Hey i fucking loved this thing......the hype is reaching fever pitch I know but shit I was not disappointed in the slightest and I was so fucking amped for this thing....this is my transformers...finally the joker looked like he was being done right. nicholson while o.k. was just to wrong physically for me...I like me a joker wirey...skinny. he shouldn't look like a tubby uncle who might molest my kids.......now romero back in the 60's show if he had been allowed to murder people and behave as bad as the comic book joker does he would have been the best. he is so spot on look wise imagine that exact performance yet with brutal violence attached?? he would have been terrifying.

see I am a batman/joker nut.....batman i love and Joker in particular has always been my favorite character in all fiction..comics, movies, books, commercials whatever the joker is my favorite character of all time so this was my transformers.....after star wars its batman for me...always has been...I love it....so I was prepared to be let down prequel style but this is a complete film. it is a crime drama, it is a psychological drama, it is an action adventure film, it is a comic book movie....

it is pretty much a straight translation of modern day batman comics brought to life by a guy who wasn't afraid to make what is FOR A COMIC BOOK MOVIE a pretty dark film. I can totally see how some people will dislike it....I can see many parents walking out with their little ones in tow...ledger is fucking great.

anyway.....its great. like I said in the other post..it won't cure cancer....it won't save the world from global warming but it will give you a fucking great night of cinema and then later on a nice blu ray disc to watch at home.....

Its just a good movie that lives up to the hype....end of story.

John, you're wrong. You're so wrong. Man I hate this site. I haven't even seen The Dark Knight and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that it's the best movie since... since....Wing Commander. Or even, dare I say it....Ultraviolet.

(man I love this site.)

I am looking forward to it, though.

I could understand where all the hyperbole is coming from. Iron Man, for example, was anticipated but expectations for that film were modest at best. So when critics and audiences saw it and said, "you know that was DAMN good" people were already saying, "it's the best comic book adap. EVER!!!!!!" With the Dark Knight, it's different. Expectations and anticipation are boiling and when the film gives them a result that exceeds said expectation they go call it a "MASTERPIECE" or "OMFG it's better than doing three hot chicks at once!!!!"

I think you are missing the entire point of what this article is about sound designer dan.

This isn't about fanboys crying foul and behaving badly over bad reviews of a film they haven't seen. This isn't about that at all. That is a topic all to itself. It has nothing to do with this at all.

This is about john saying that what a lot of the reviews are saying is bullshit and pretty much calling them liars.

Anyway all I know is I am looking forward to it.

One thing I think we can all agree on is its gonna make a shit load of cash this weekend.

Sound Designer Dan

yeah i get it...makes sense.

as long as this isnt the last dark knight post until "new batman 3 trailer" im fine. and it probably wont be.

but thank you though

Hazmat,

I think John can't move this argument until the movie is released because of the issue between critics and fanboys. Said fanboys have begun posting idiotic and derogatory comments about a couple of critics because they gave dark knight negative, though fair-handed, reviews. The main problem is that most of the fanboys that post on numerous comic book or batman forums haven't even seen the dark knight yet.

Another problem here is that in the forums most of these fanboys have already read all the spoilers. Some of even written "From THE CLIPS i've seen and stuff i've heard, I don't know what the hell *insert critic here* is talking about!"

Please post or cut and paste some examples of these "lies" that you are apparently seeing everywhere. I am ready to be proved wrong but I have not seen anyone claim it is the darkest film outright that they have ever seen. I have not seen anyone claim it is the grittiest film outright they have ever seen.

I have seen many reviews say it is the darkest and grittiest COMIC BOOK film they have ever seen but I have not seen anyone outright say out of all movies of all genres this is the darkest.

I have seen one review where a woman claims it is one of the best crime films she has ever seen and if that is how she sees it then so be it. why call her a liar?

That is her subjective opinion. I will be surprised if it reaches the levels of a mean streets or goodfellas or godfather but if that is how she feels that is how she feels. who are you to call them a liar?

And lets remember he is a crime fighter after all. He fights criminals. Crimes are committed. He was brought about by crime. These films are one hundred percent about crime.

I am not attacking you nor am I being a blind fanboy - I have not judgement on the film until I see it but I just don't see how you can say these people are lying in their reviews. They just see it differently to you thats all.

But I also what to reiterate that I am not trying to antagonize you or stir up shit I am genuinely enjoying this debate.

I am just puzzled that someone who generally seems to have good thoughts and opinions - a writer I a quite like who believes so strongly in subjectivity would write a post like this. I am just puzzled because I Do see what you are saying but I still think it comes down to subjectivity.

"Your mom became TEDIOUS AND ODDLY LIFELESS after she gave birth to you."

This was a comment to L.A Times Film Critic Kenneth Turan after his review for "The Transformers" on Rotten Tomatoes.

Doug said it on the podcast, people say stupid shit in the heat of the moment.

john

can we please move these types of arguments till after the movie comes out? like for the near future i mean

i just feel so left out

this comes out friday and ill watch it thursday by which time everyone else will already have moved on about how much they loved harry potter and the half blood prince

i CAN say that wall-e was fantastic (i liked cars better though...sorry)

Friday? My theater which isn't big by any means says the Dark Knight will start showing on Thursday. Late showings I'm assuming perhaps.

Either way, I'm excited. I loved Begins, I just watched the Blu-Ray last night..

I'll be first in line on Friday!

Hey George,

No, you're missing the point.

I never called anyone a liar for having their opinion. Opinion is subjective and that's what it's all about.

Is Transformers the GREATEST popcorn film of all time? To me yes, to another no... but it IS a popcorn flick.

I love the Dark Knight. But it is an action/adventure comic book movie.

Someone gives is a 5/10? Ok that's fine. Someone gives it a 10/10? Ok that's fine too. But don't say things about it that aren't true.

sound designer dan you are missing the point of what is happening in this story.

this is about whether or not a film is better than another or john saying one film is better than this - that has nothing to do with it.

this is about john calling other critics liars for having their opinion.

of course there are going to be fanboys going crazy at critics who give it a bad review - there always will be for these types of films but that is not what this post is about.

I admire john and I like his site but I just don't think its right of him to call other people liars. They have different opinions.

John called the transformers the single greatest pure popcorn summer film of all time.

Is he a liar because I think otherwise? No and I wouldn't call him a liar for having an opinion.

NB buy your ticktets now like did

argh, here we go again with "why did you give certain movie a so and so score while Dark Knight gets 8.5?" Blah blah blah, it's his blog people, we're just reading it. Geez, John writes this article and all the fanboys who haven't seen the goddamn movie go nuts (i.e. superhero hype forums). The movie is not perfect and it will never be. There's no such thing as a perfect movie objectively because movies are all subjective.

For example, there already have been some negative reviews for TDK and the fanboys go fucking nuts. Sure, one review I've read (from Edelstein) totally ripped TDK from the bottom to the top even going as far as going into Ledger's life but that's his review, that's all his feels.

I would only imagine what would happen if Ebert gave TDK a negative review.

John

I just cant believe !

you critizing fanboystic acts coming from batman fans!

Those who dont liked TRANSFORMERS tooked your fanboyisms very well.

How someone who calls himself a fanboy could think that another fanboy is acting with to much hiperbole about something he love and waited so much to see???

PICK A MIRROR OR BETTER AN OLD RECORD OF THE AUDIO EDTITION AND LISTEN TO YOURSELF.

And doesnt matter if you critisized some weack point of that movie for YOU still awesome!!!

"most fun summer flick I’d ever seen "

And then you think anyone else using the same Hiperbolic way to express yourself about something he loved is being venomous for the public???

COMMON MAN!!

All I know is that the movie will be entertaining. I do hate this hyping up of a movie situation since sometimes I get really disappointed.

Wanted = 9.0

That's really all I need to know. I think someone likes to take the opposite stance even when it is clearly wrong.

Points taken John - I've already dialed down the pre-release hype anyhow.

BTW - is it the best comic book ever?

That should spark a whole new debate!

;D

John

A few weeks ago you said TDK would not open at or above $100M....do you still think that?

John,

You're no fun man. Can't you just let me get caught up in the lunacy of these last remaining days. It's either going to crush me, disappoint me or meet my rather high expectations. You should've saved this topic for next week when we could've had a fun debate on your actual critique of the film, when we've all seen it. Now, we're left with babbling about a movie must of us only have expectations for.

You had your fun with Transformers, let me have mine. Thanks, love the site.

er I meant "stabbing a guy in the head with a pencil"

Too much "fanboys say this"

Much of what you are saying is false is coming from critics reviews. Much of them labeled "top critics" on RT. I've read countless reviews about how they are surprised it isn't rated R.

One of the new negative reviews even says the movie is TOO dark and sadistic.

I like the sound of that. I'll be the judge when I see it but thus far it seems darker than any comic book movie so far. Whoever compared it to the Crow is kinda funny. WTF is dark and scary about the Crow? Not much. From what I've seen and heard of the Dark Knight, it seems much darker. Such as Joker stabbing a guy in the head with a pistol and sewing stuff into dead bodies.