The Short Version
- The Dark Knight is a great movie
- It’s not even close to being the “darkest” or “Grittiest” or “violent” or “best crime drama” movie ever
- It’s ok to love a movie without the need to make up fake praises and to admit its shortcomings
The Full Version
We’re now just a few short days away from the opening of one of the most anticipated movies of the year. The Dark Knight (the sequel to Batman Begins) and huge swells of movie going patrons will storm theaters this weekend… the wait is over. But dear international friends… as your friend I feel the need to warn you in advance. IGNORE THE BLOG FANBOY CRITICS (like myself) who are hailing this Batman flick as: “The darkest”, “the grittiest”, “the revolutionary”, “the masterpiece”, “The Ultra Violent”, “The instant Crame drama classic” film that some of them are making it out to be, because you’ll be disappointed.
Let’s get something straight. I loved The Dark Knight. I gave the movie an 8.5 out of 10. It’s fantastic on many levels. Very fun movie… yadda yadda yadda. But it seems like some guys had so pre-invensted themselves into believing the movie would be awesome long before they ever saw it, that when the movie turned out to be really good, they praised it like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It’s not.
Now, if you’ll allow me to play a little Penn and Teller, here are a couple of false praises the film gets, and why they’re bullshit:
1) The Dark Knight Is One Of the Darkest (Or Grittiest) Films I’ve Ever Seen
This statement (or some variation of it) is one of the staples in the blog fanboy quotes you’ll see in most Dark Knight reviews. When I read those quotes all I can wonder to myself is “what the fuck movie were they watching and what made them think it was Batman?”
Bullshit: Let’s get the straight. The Dark Knight isn’t really all that Dark and it isn’t really all that gritty. Oh it’s dark and gritty for a COMIC BOOK MOVIE. Sure, I’ll agree with that. Compare this film to X-Men and you can call it dark and gritty. Compare it to Spider-Man and you can call it dark and gritty. But don’t even pretend like The Dark Knight is even in the same league as Apocalypse Now or American Psycho (also featuring Christian Bale coincidentally) or The Killer. The Dark Knight looks like a G rated family film next to real “dark” films. Dark and gritty for a comic book movie, sure… but just leave it at that.
2) The Dark Knight Transcends Being A Comic Book Movie And Becomes An Instant Crime Drama Classic
Good grief, reading this statement in a couple of fanboy reviews is what really convinced me some people were just making up ways to praise this film (that’s good enough that it doesn’t need people making up fake things to say about it).
Bullshit: Instant crime drama classic? If I ever smoked drugs, I’d want some of what these guys are having, because in my opinion, that statement is nothing short of absurd. Godfather, Goodfellas, The Usual Suspects… these are crime drama classics, Dark Knight is not, nor does it try to be. I’m sorry, but aside from Heath Ledger, the “criminals” in The Dark Knight (including Eric Roberts, whom I normal love) were terrible and acted like they came straight out of… well… out of a comic book. Please don’t tell me The Dark Knight is a new Crime Drama classic with a straight face when a copy of Reservoir Dogs and The French Connection are sitting on the shelf behind us.
3) The Dark Knight Is Ultra Violent
Again, I don’t know what movie these people are watching. Reading one of the blog fanboy reviews would lead you to believe that Heath Ledger walks around slitting the throats of women and children at the local Dairy Queen just to pass the time while waiting for his Blizzard.
Bullshit: I’ll go back to what I said about the dark and gritty point. Yes, for a COMIC BOOK MOVIE this film is quite violent. I’ve said before that this movie is not for little kids, but to call the stuff on screen in The Dark Knight “intense violence” is quite frankly laughable. Big spoiler here folks… the Joker shoots some people. There’s another scene where he does something pretty cool to a guy… but we don’t even see it really. Come on… phrases like “intense brutal violence” are for movies that have… you know… intense brutal violence. Films like Aliens, Hostel, Battle Royale, Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance… these are intense brutal violence movies. Dear heavens Dark Knight doesn’t even come close to being a part of the discussion.
IT’S OK TO LOVE A MOVIE AND ADMIT ITS FAULTS AT THE SAME TIME
Regular Movie Blog readers know how much I loved Transformers. I bloody flipped my lid for that movie beyond all reasonable limits. I said it was the most fun summer flick I’d ever seen and I said it was the best visual effects I’d ever seen. However, if you read my stuff, or if you listened to the Transformers DVD commentary that we did, you’ll know that I openly talk about the many weaknesses of the movie. The painful dialog in places, the poor choice in certain characters they used, the horrible lack of dialog between the decepticons (how can you have a transformers movie and only have 1 single line between Megatron and Starscream?!?!)
Just because I acknowledges the film had a lot of flaws didn’t mean I couldn’t still love it
Also, I praised the film for what it was (fun, great VFX). Even though I loved the movie, I never felt the need to say it had the best acting, or the best story, or the best comedy or the most “intense brutal violence”. That would have been just making shit up to artificially justify my love for the movie… when I don’t need to justify my love for a movie. None of us do.
The Dark Knight never tries to be a Crime drama. It doesn’t try to be one of film history’s most dark and gritty movies. It doesn’t try to be ultra violent. It is what it is… and it’s damn good at it! There’s no need to reach up our collective asses to pull out false praises that the film doesn’t even qualify for. It’s good enough on it’s own without all the hyperbole.
Please be clear, this is not a “hate on The Dark Knight” post. I LOVE the movie… I love the movie enough to let it stand on its own actual merits without the need for the internet’s collective hyper exaggerated praises about it. It’s a wonderful movie and I think you’ll love it… just be very very very cautious of the bullshit some people are spraying in advance.
Anyway, just my grumpy subjective opinion written at 7am when I haven’t been to bed yet.
As a side note, another good read on the Hyperbole (he actually uses that word in his title) over the new Dark Knight movie, check out Devin’s (who I think it probably the best pure writer in the movie websphere even though I often disagree with him) post over at CHUD.
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I like a good gangster film or a thriller if they hold my interest and make some sense. The new Batman film is really bad on several counts: and I must say, aside from Heath Ledger’s performance which is the only thing that kept me going, the rest is profligate, stupid, violent, unintelligible, a waste of time and much too much money, and potentially poison to young people’s minds. It’s a “can you top this” of vicious, destructive, glorification. YOu cannot compare Batman’s supposed ‘good’ intentions with the sensational and craven Badness on the screen. I would have walked out after the first half hour if not to see how Heath Ledger handled the role. So much hype is not the substitute for a real plot, real acting (Christian Bale was a wooden, croaky disaster). I even felt embarrassed for Morgan Freeman.
I only skim read the article, but I think we are reading from the same page.
Dark Knight was a fairly good flick but had so many plots holes, and other short comings that it would never get more than a 7.5 out of ten from me.
Of course Heath’s role made the film, but the hype over this film is out of control and contributed in no small part by his unfortunate passing away. I mean 9.8 on IMDB is just absurd.
The only thing which saved this film for me was the simmeringly hot underlying homereroticism between Batman and Joker.
(Type your comment here. Make sure you’ve read the commenting rules before doing so)Yeah this movie was way overhyped and had so many unrealistic parts like the joker shooting gordon in front of 100 cops and getting away –bullshit. i was also disturbed by the underlying homoeroticism between batman and joker.
also, jim in charolette, it was a fake batman who crashed into the window (with a carved joker smile) and daniel has already commented on your two-face coin rip-off comment, so i won’t. of course this film has flaws, but i am always entertained by people who hear hype and immediately set out to dislike something that is generally loved.
Guys, I think John was right. There were a lot of things people say about TDK, and it turns up wrong. TDK was great. It was fun, brilliant, sophisticated AS A COMIC BASED MOVIE. That’s all, you guys!! Keep it real. It rocks for making money and put itself on the top of IMDb. But it’s not the darkest, the most violent, the BEST, no….
Jim, don’t let the facts get in the way of your bashing of the movie. Two-Face has been flipping a coin since the 1940’s in the comics. If anything, No Country For Old Men ripped off Two-Face, not the other way around. And another fact. The Dark Knight was done filming by the time No Country For Old Men came out in theaters, so they have absolutely no connection whatsoever other than the potential that Two-Face influenced that element of Anton Chigurh.
“Was anyone really surprised that the coin was two-headed and was not this act of ‘flipping the coin’ a direct rip-off of last year’s Oscar winning movie where ‘random chance’ was the theme?”
That is the line that made me realize you are joking. You are joking right?? You do realize Two Face is a comic book character who has been flipping coins long before No Country for Old men??
I mean fair enough if you don’t like the film but you are kidding with that bit right?
Went to see Dark Knight last night. This was the worst movie of the year. With so much hype, you’d think this was the smartest, most thought-provoking movie ever made. But the dialog was simplistic and each scene was totally transparent. The only time the movie ‘shocked’ me was when the fake Joker slammed into the glass. And yes, the flying scenes were spectacular. But after 90 minutes I was begging for this movie to end. The DA character was so silly and so unnecessary that I was convinced the only reason he existed was because someone’s friend who does SFX must have begged the director to let them work on this film. Was anyone really surprised that the coin was two-headed and was not this act of ‘flipping the coin’ a direct rip-off of last year’s Oscar winning movie where ‘random chance’ was the theme? Was anyone really surprised that Gordon wasn’t dead? Has anyone else noticed how Maggie Gyllenhaal looks a lot like Miss Piggy? After seeing this film, my faith in America and the World took a nosedive – are we really as stupid as the trite dialogue in this movie?
Thanks john….for giving the movie the credit that it deserves. some fans out there are showering too much praise on an excellent movie…and in fact it’s these hyper praises that trigger an Anti-The Dark Knight crowd….
Kudos for giving the movie the respect that it must be given
Thankjs john….for giving the movie the credit that it deserves. some fans out there are showering too much praise on an excellent movie…and in fact it’s these hyper praises that trigger an Anti-The Dark Knight crowd….
Kudos for giving the movie the respect that it deserves.
YOUR ALL LAME, IT ROCKED THE SOCKS OFF MY FEET.
“Please don’t tell me The Dark Knight is a new Crime Drama classic with a straight face when a copy of Reservoir Dogs and The French Connection are sitting on the shelf behind us.”
Ah, but that’s where you’re (tragically) wrong. For good or ill, superhero movies are the new gangster/cowboy/ninja movies.
http://thecurrent.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/iron-man-conquers-the-world.php
I’ve never been a huge fan of Batman (Make Mine Marvel) but I enjoyed the Batman films, except Shumacher’s of course.
And I hate say this but I agree, it was a good movie but nowhere near the instant classic the so called experts and internet who haws are proclaiming. I thought the movie was a little bit too long and gotham looked totally different than it looked in the first movie and some of the dialog in the first half of the film between Dent and Dawes was cheesy.
I guess I like my Super Hero movies less gritty, I wanted real life, I wouldn’t be reading comic books!
John!! OMG!!! you are a right agressive grumpy guts!!
#memorable..i meant to say lol
i myself have seen the darkknight and i have to agree that it is a good movie but certainly not superb.the acting was good..but the story though interesting was not rivoting.at certain parts of the movie it got a little far fetched.was it memorable? not really, and iam a batman fan, believe me.just like batman begins it was a very good movie as you are watching it but after its over you go on with your life, never to think about it again.no country fro men was a hell of a lot better and that is what a superb movie is.the main problem i find about d.k. is that even though the acting was good, i didnt care about any of the characters. nolan was trying to do so much in 2 half hours it was from one scene, one speech to another.just like spiderman it has a moral question to ask and it keeps driving that point in your head over and over through out the movie.there wasnt one time i felt suspenful thrill, horror, etc.bottom line, iam sorry to all die hard fans but i have to concure, it was above good..7.0 out of 10 but certainly not great and wet my pants emeorable.
It just hit #1 on IMDB’s top 250 movies EVER. I liked it and had a great time viewing it, but this is really bizzare. I wasn’t wearing anything revealing of being a geek, just in plain clothes, and the guy at the gas station asked me if I’d seen Dark Knight yet… In St. Louis the ONLY thing people ever mention in public is sports, and 90% of that is Baseball only.
Here’s a list of 100 more accolades to laud the Dark Knight with.
http://tincage-lining.blogspot.com/2008/07/movie-dark-knight-part-one-hype.html
Why this article is Bullshit: You hype this movie just as much as anyone,
by sweetness, I meant coolness… not Bambi sweet.
I don’t even care if the movie’s good or not… I just want to live to see the day when Titanic get raped by another movie at the box office (although it is somewhat unlikely that TDK will acheive this). Come on, folks… Go see the movie twice or thrice. Shoot… See it four times just to make up for all of the elderly people who won’t want anything to do with it.
Also, I’m going to back up John… Seriously… You can love something and still have a critique of it. Take your mothers for example… By the look of some of these posts (and posts on other websites), I’m just going to assume that some of your mothers try to get you to change the way you talk to/about other people (or try to get you to listen so you can understand what people are trying to get across to you). That doesn’t mean they don’t love you. They’re just trying to convince you to better yourself…
Just because you want the movie to be the best thing ever doesn’t mean it will be. I wanted X-Men 3 to be amazing, and then the Rush Hour guy took a piss on the script and let the Juggernaut say lines from a youtube video… There’s not a doubt in my mind that TDK will be better than X-Men 3, but it’s not going to be the best movie ever.
Why don’t we all just assume that it’s going to suck, then when we see it, we can be amazed and a little surprised by its sweetness.
Having not even seen the movie, I will say that reading reviews will make me biased. I just wait until it comes out on DVD if I see it at all.
John has had something up his rear since the whole movie blog getting bought thing. definitely takes himself really serious now. has become a contrarian of sorts, and and elitist at times. convinced of his superiority. this site is definitely not as fun as it used to be. i find myself coming here less and less. oh and we get it john, you used to be a lawyer. how many times do you work that in to one of your stories? unreal. go back and read some of your old work from a year or two ago, and try to be that guy again.
alfie@
how can you lie so much!!!!
” I was prepared to be let down prequel style but this is a complete film. it is a crime drama, it is a psychological drama, it is an action adventure film, it is a comic book movie…”
thanks so much for your “lies”alfie!!
im overhyped to see tdk too but here in japan i will have to wait 1 month more!!
when the movie comes out,since we bove share the same taste,i probably will be spreading the same “lies”
aniway!
FIRST SORRY FOR THE CAPLOCK”LOCKED”,ITS A FULL JAPANESE (HAYKU)KEYBOARD IN MY JOB.
“Is Transformers the GREATEST popcorn film of all time? To me yes, to another no… but it IS a popcorn flick.”
SO ITS A MOVIE BASED IN A 80S CARTOON TO SELL TOYS BUT IN YOUR OPINION IT IS “the most fun summer flick I’d ever seen ”
SO FOR YOU IS BETTER THEN :RAIDER OR DIE HARD.
and thats cool because its subjective .
BUT WHEN SOMEONE USE THE SAME LOGIC TO EXPRESS HIM SELF ABOUT A MOVIE ABOUT A “detective”sitting another movies related to this theme its not subjective but its a lie?????
and this go for the other examples you did in your post as well.
think better and you will see this between your lines “i am a batman fan,but not in the same level as i am a transformers fan so “good “in batman is just good but in transformers “good”is awesome!!”
and when this logic go in reverse for a batman fan “its a lie”!!??
and i dont even care with tdk is the best thing since sliced bread for the other fanboys or not.
i just give to then the same freeedom to express their love for the move the same asv you!
Still waiting…
…and especially since I can quote you as saying this “I love the Dark Knight. But it is an action/adventure comic book movie.” again, which you can’t say. There are no “FACTS”! It’s all just your opinion. Just admit that you were wrong about opinion/facts. Yes, it is a comic book film, based on a character, that first appeared in a Crime Fiction Comic, (the character being) created by Bob Kane. That comic being “Detective Comics”
you said.
“HOWEVER… in loving it, some people are saying things that just aren’t factually true
How dark it is (nothing compared to real dark movies)
How violent it is (nothing compared to real violent movies)
That it’s a crime drama classic (no)
The film is great. But it’s great for what it really is. There is no need for people to be making stuff up about it to justify why they like it so much.”
Factually true?
1. Where are the facts that it isn’t the “Darkest” PG-13 movie ever made? (not that I don’t doubt this statement, I just want proof to back up your sworn statement.) I think if you are going to state facts you need to provide them.
2. Where are the facts that it isn’t the “Violent” for a PG-13 rated movie? (not that I don’t doubt this statement, I just want proof to back up your sworn statement.) I think if you are going to state facts you need to provide them.
3. Where are the facts that it isn’t a “Crime Drama”?
This I have a major problem with. In my opinion it is a “Crime Drama”. Batman comics are “Crime Drama” comics. Batman is The Dark Detective. Batman first appeared in “Detective Comics”. It’s all about “Crime Drama”. That is a Fact. Prove it isn’t and I owe you some candy, my friend.
please provide links to your proof. i want dearly to eat my words on this one. Please prove: a) that Batman is not “The Dark Detective”, b) that he didn’t first appear in “Detective Comics”. IF you can prove both of these things then you can go ahead and say that it isn’t a “Crime Drama”. He didn’t appear in Action comics. That was Superman.
I think that you haven’t answered because I’m right. There is no rebuttle because this is truely FACT. …and not just your stated opinion. I think it’s good that you have opinion. Just don’t say that others opinions are wrong.
Most importantly don’t say, “FACT” if you can’t back it up. It seems to have caused you a lot of trouble and now you are avoiding it to not have to say that you are sorry. When you have a fan base on a blog you should be man enough to admit when you do something that isn’t appropriate.
To quote Rha’s Al Ghul, “I believe that you have given up sure footing for a killing strike.”
It would seem that you are now swimming in icey waters.
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Hey John I have a question……Why So Serious???
Hey i fucking loved this thing……the hype is reaching fever pitch I know but shit I was not disappointed in the slightest and I was so fucking amped for this thing….this is my transformers…finally the joker looked like he was being done right. nicholson while o.k. was just to wrong physically for me…I like me a joker wirey…skinny. he shouldn’t look like a tubby uncle who might molest my kids…….now romero back in the 60’s show if he had been allowed to murder people and behave as bad as the comic book joker does he would have been the best. he is so spot on look wise imagine that exact performance yet with brutal violence attached?? he would have been terrifying.
see I am a batman/joker nut…..batman i love and Joker in particular has always been my favorite character in all fiction..comics, movies, books, commercials whatever the joker is my favorite character of all time so this was my transformers…..after star wars its batman for me…always has been…I love it….so I was prepared to be let down prequel style but this is a complete film. it is a crime drama, it is a psychological drama, it is an action adventure film, it is a comic book movie….
it is pretty much a straight translation of modern day batman comics brought to life by a guy who wasn’t afraid to make what is FOR A COMIC BOOK MOVIE a pretty dark film. I can totally see how some people will dislike it….I can see many parents walking out with their little ones in tow…ledger is fucking great.
anyway…..its great. like I said in the other post..it won’t cure cancer….it won’t save the world from global warming but it will give you a fucking great night of cinema and then later on a nice blu ray disc to watch at home…..
Its just a good movie that lives up to the hype….end of story.
John, you’re wrong. You’re so wrong. Man I hate this site. I haven’t even seen The Dark Knight and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that it’s the best movie since… since….Wing Commander. Or even, dare I say it….Ultraviolet.
(man I love this site.)
I am looking forward to it, though.
I could understand where all the hyperbole is coming from. Iron Man, for example, was anticipated but expectations for that film were modest at best. So when critics and audiences saw it and said, “you know that was DAMN good” people were already saying, “it’s the best comic book adap. EVER!!!!!!” With the Dark Knight, it’s different. Expectations and anticipation are boiling and when the film gives them a result that exceeds said expectation they go call it a “MASTERPIECE” or “OMFG it’s better than doing three hot chicks at once!!!!”
I think you are missing the entire point of what this article is about sound designer dan.
This isn’t about fanboys crying foul and behaving badly over bad reviews of a film they haven’t seen. This isn’t about that at all. That is a topic all to itself. It has nothing to do with this at all.
This is about john saying that what a lot of the reviews are saying is bullshit and pretty much calling them liars.
Anyway all I know is I am looking forward to it.
One thing I think we can all agree on is its gonna make a shit load of cash this weekend.
Sound Designer Dan
yeah i get it…makes sense.
as long as this isnt the last dark knight post until “new batman 3 trailer” im fine. and it probably wont be.
but thank you though
Hazmat,
I think John can’t move this argument until the movie is released because of the issue between critics and fanboys. Said fanboys have begun posting idiotic and derogatory comments about a couple of critics because they gave dark knight negative, though fair-handed, reviews. The main problem is that most of the fanboys that post on numerous comic book or batman forums haven’t even seen the dark knight yet.
Another problem here is that in the forums most of these fanboys have already read all the spoilers. Some of even written “From THE CLIPS i’ve seen and stuff i’ve heard, I don’t know what the hell *insert critic here* is talking about!”
Please post or cut and paste some examples of these “lies” that you are apparently seeing everywhere. I am ready to be proved wrong but I have not seen anyone claim it is the darkest film outright that they have ever seen. I have not seen anyone claim it is the grittiest film outright they have ever seen.
I have seen many reviews say it is the darkest and grittiest COMIC BOOK film they have ever seen but I have not seen anyone outright say out of all movies of all genres this is the darkest.
I have seen one review where a woman claims it is one of the best crime films she has ever seen and if that is how she sees it then so be it. why call her a liar?
That is her subjective opinion. I will be surprised if it reaches the levels of a mean streets or goodfellas or godfather but if that is how she feels that is how she feels. who are you to call them a liar?
And lets remember he is a crime fighter after all. He fights criminals. Crimes are committed. He was brought about by crime. These films are one hundred percent about crime.
I am not attacking you nor am I being a blind fanboy – I have not judgement on the film until I see it but I just don’t see how you can say these people are lying in their reviews. They just see it differently to you thats all.
But I also what to reiterate that I am not trying to antagonize you or stir up shit I am genuinely enjoying this debate.
I am just puzzled that someone who generally seems to have good thoughts and opinions – a writer I a quite like who believes so strongly in subjectivity would write a post like this. I am just puzzled because I Do see what you are saying but I still think it comes down to subjectivity.
“Your mom became TEDIOUS AND ODDLY LIFELESS after she gave birth to you.”
This was a comment to L.A Times Film Critic Kenneth Turan after his review for “The Transformers” on Rotten Tomatoes.
Doug said it on the podcast, people say stupid shit in the heat of the moment.
john
can we please move these types of arguments till after the movie comes out? like for the near future i mean
i just feel so left out
this comes out friday and ill watch it thursday by which time everyone else will already have moved on about how much they loved harry potter and the half blood prince
i CAN say that wall-e was fantastic (i liked cars better though…sorry)
Friday? My theater which isn’t big by any means says the Dark Knight will start showing on Thursday. Late showings I’m assuming perhaps.
Either way, I’m excited. I loved Begins, I just watched the Blu-Ray last night..
I’ll be first in line on Friday!
Hey George,
No, you’re missing the point.
I never called anyone a liar for having their opinion. Opinion is subjective and that’s what it’s all about.
Is Transformers the GREATEST popcorn film of all time? To me yes, to another no… but it IS a popcorn flick.
I love the Dark Knight. But it is an action/adventure comic book movie.
Someone gives is a 5/10? Ok that’s fine. Someone gives it a 10/10? Ok that’s fine too. But don’t say things about it that aren’t true.
sound designer dan you are missing the point of what is happening in this story.
this is about whether or not a film is better than another or john saying one film is better than this – that has nothing to do with it.
this is about john calling other critics liars for having their opinion.
of course there are going to be fanboys going crazy at critics who give it a bad review – there always will be for these types of films but that is not what this post is about.
I admire john and I like his site but I just don’t think its right of him to call other people liars. They have different opinions.
John called the transformers the single greatest pure popcorn summer film of all time.
Is he a liar because I think otherwise? No and I wouldn’t call him a liar for having an opinion.
NB buy your ticktets now like did
argh, here we go again with “why did you give certain movie a so and so score while Dark Knight gets 8.5?” Blah blah blah, it’s his blog people, we’re just reading it. Geez, John writes this article and all the fanboys who haven’t seen the goddamn movie go nuts (i.e. superhero hype forums). The movie is not perfect and it will never be. There’s no such thing as a perfect movie objectively because movies are all subjective.
For example, there already have been some negative reviews for TDK and the fanboys go fucking nuts. Sure, one review I’ve read (from Edelstein) totally ripped TDK from the bottom to the top even going as far as going into Ledger’s life but that’s his review, that’s all his feels.
I would only imagine what would happen if Ebert gave TDK a negative review.
John
I just cant believe !
you critizing fanboystic acts coming from batman fans!
Those who dont liked TRANSFORMERS tooked your fanboyisms very well.
How someone who calls himself a fanboy could think that another fanboy is acting with to much hiperbole about something he love and waited so much to see???
PICK A MIRROR OR BETTER AN OLD RECORD OF THE AUDIO EDTITION AND LISTEN TO YOURSELF.
And doesnt matter if you critisized some weack point of that movie for YOU still awesome!!!
“most fun summer flick I’d ever seen ”
And then you think anyone else using the same Hiperbolic way to express yourself about something he loved is being venomous for the public???
COMMON MAN!!
All I know is that the movie will be entertaining. I do hate this hyping up of a movie situation since sometimes I get really disappointed.
Wanted = 9.0
That’s really all I need to know. I think someone likes to take the opposite stance even when it is clearly wrong.
Points taken John – I’ve already dialed down the pre-release hype anyhow.
BTW – is it the best comic book ever?
That should spark a whole new debate!
;D
John
A few weeks ago you said TDK would not open at or above $100M….do you still think that?
John,
You’re no fun man. Can’t you just let me get caught up in the lunacy of these last remaining days. It’s either going to crush me, disappoint me or meet my rather high expectations. You should’ve saved this topic for next week when we could’ve had a fun debate on your actual critique of the film, when we’ve all seen it. Now, we’re left with babbling about a movie must of us only have expectations for.
You had your fun with Transformers, let me have mine. Thanks, love the site.
er I meant “stabbing a guy in the head with a pencil”
Too much “fanboys say this”
Much of what you are saying is false is coming from critics reviews. Much of them labeled “top critics” on RT. I’ve read countless reviews about how they are surprised it isn’t rated R.
One of the new negative reviews even says the movie is TOO dark and sadistic.
I like the sound of that. I’ll be the judge when I see it but thus far it seems darker than any comic book movie so far. Whoever compared it to the Crow is kinda funny. WTF is dark and scary about the Crow? Not much. From what I’ve seen and heard of the Dark Knight, it seems much darker. Such as Joker stabbing a guy in the head with a pistol and sewing stuff into dead bodies.
john the one thing i don’t understand, how could you possibly give borat a 10/10 when you’re giving TDK an 8.5?
a good little collection of reviews and links from our good friends at Rotten Tomatoes
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_dark_knight/news/1741201/tomatometer_watch_is_the_dark_knight_a_masterpiece
Everything is subjective even this article.
John likes to be controversial, (like every other day), I’m cracking up reading these bloggers argue a point that means nothing.
Btw, Wall-E will not make as much as this watered down light hearted comic book movie. ;-)
George:
LOL good point about The New Yorker
Its seems that the 2 negative reviews say that the film is too dark…and the Joker is too sadistic…..too overwhelming…oh well…..
i was looking the same guy LOVED Zohan lol
Well New Yorker magazine seems to be having a bit of trouble with bad judgement at the moment so I wouldn’t take them too seriously ;P
I am just kidding around. you know the whole terrorist obama thing??? anyway I am not being a blind fanboy here. I don’t care whether someone loves the film, thinks its the greatest ever made or hates it with every fibre of their body I just think its wrong to call people liars when john would get extremely cross if someone called him a liar for loving wall-e so much
oh BTW
Just checked RottenTomatoes….its down to 86% ( 3 bad reviews now)
The New Yorker & New York magazine didnt like it.
But the funniest is the review from Star magazine!!
(you know that garbage that u see while youre waiting in line at the grocery store lol) They didnt like it eaither….too serious and moody lol
Sorry i did see ONE review claim it is one of the best crime films of all time. And that is how they felt about it so who are you to say he/she was lying?
I can see where you are coming from with the seemingly unanimous praise for the film but it is sitting with 100% on RT (granted only a handful of reviews have been counted thus far) so you can’t just blame the internet or the blogs.
“Quite honestly John, why can’t you just let the people who love it, love it.”
Sorry John i agree with that. Who cares if everyone thinks its the best thing EVER (A+++) and you thought it was (A-). Its all good let people gush over it…whats the big deal??
Plus..i just watched Roeper’s review..hes the farthest thing from a fanboy/internet geek…and hes talking nomination for Ledger and even for best PIC!!
ps. im thinking 120million opening weekend now :)
I have not seen anyone try to claim it is the darkest film of all time or the grittiest film OF ALL TIME. I have seen them say for a comic book movie or a summer blockbuster but I have not seen anyone try to say it is as violent as say the departed or as gritty as Taxi Driver.
I guess I just don;t understand the point of your post. It seems purely to claim you are right and nearly everyone else is wrong.
Someone could just easily write –
Wall-E is a good film. Even a great film but all these over hyped reviews claiming it deserves a best picture nomination are bullshit. You don;t need to lie to like a film. Wall-E is not the best animated film of all time nor is it the best animated film this year.All these rave reviews are lies.
but it would be silly to write something like that because you don;t enjoy something as much as someone else. Because its all subjective.
See I thought liked Wall-E a lot. But I did not love it anywhere near as much as you did john but I can’t call you a liar for your review can i?
John
“Love the movie as much as you want… that’s totally cool. Just don’t board line LIE about it”
I dont see how you can say people are lying. If someone truly feels that The Dark Knight is one of the best movies they have ever seen, then to them it is. You obviously loved the movie, but are more subjective when comparing it to what you feel is truly dark. If someone else thinks the TDK rivals the darker toned movies they have seen, let them. You yourself have said film is great because its subjective. You think anyone saying TDK is one of the best crime dramas of all time is Bullshit, They are probably writing an article on how they think you are bullshit. :) Gotta Love the conversation tho! Keep up the great posts!
what does “dark and gritty” mean anyway? nothing in my opinion. I’m sick of the marketing bullshit – “it’s WAYY darker” – it’s a bunch of ass description.
I think the film is getting way over hyped and it’ll probably leave me cold like every other piece of shit that comes out of hollywood – except pixar; they are the exception.
It isn’t just the internet or fanboy blogs giving it hyper praise every review I have read has been raving.
newspapers, radio, magazines, television AND the internet.
Now whats that thing you always like to say john? film is subjective.
so how can you then turn around say these people are talking bullshit with their praise and rave reviews?
Are you trying to say you are the only person telling the truth?
I am not attacking you but I don’t see how you can write a piece where you are kind of calling all these other critics liars.
I am sure there are people who disagree with your hyper praise of Wall – E but they would have no right to write up an article pretty saying what you claim is bullshit.
they like dark knight more than you. they have every right.
it doesn’t make it bullshit.
@NBAKID,
Watch The Assassination of Jesse James again….THEN go see The Dark Knight:):P
I still haven’t decided whether to see this opening night or not.
I saw Batman Begins one time and that was enough for me…I don’t know if it’ll be worth the 6 hours in line I know I’m gonna have to stand there for. Hmmm…Sucks. What should I do, people?
ummm… John? confused.
you said.
“HOWEVER… in loving it, some people are saying things that just aren’t factually true
How dark it is (nothing compared to real dark movies)
How violent it is (nothing compared to real violent movies)
That it’s a crime drama classic (no)
The film is great. But it’s great for what it really is. There is no need for people to be making stuff up about it to justify why they like it so much.”
Factually true?
1. Where are the facts that it isn’t the “Darkest” PG-13 movie ever made? (not that I don’t doubt this statement, I just want proof to back up your sworn statement.) I think if you are going to state facts you need to provide them.
2. Where are the facts that it isn’t the “Violent” for a PG-13 rated movie? (not that I don’t doubt this statement, I just want proof to back up your sworn statement.) I think if you are going to state facts you need to provide them.
3. Where are the facts that it isn’t a “Crime Drama”?
This I have a major problem with. In my opinion it is a “Crime Drama”. Batman comics are “Crime Drama” comics. Batman is The Dark Detective. Batman first appeared in “Detective Comics”. It’s all about “Crime Drama”. That is a Fact. Prove it isn’t and I owe you some candy, my friend.
please provide links to your proof. i want dearly to eat my words on this one.
thanks John
Norbit = the greatest film with man in fat suit. FACT. Now subjective that!
John
you did mention Eric Roberts as being a positive in your review but in light of recent comments i am assuming you meant that you enjoyed his performance but as a serious mobster character it wasn’t very good ?
The darkest and grittiest comic book movies so far have been The Crow, Virus, Sin City and 300 and had more hard violence than Batman will ever have.
Well, John, I think The Usual Suspects is undeserving of it’s crime classic status and I think American Psycho is nowehre near as graphic, dark, or violent as people say it is. It’s all subjective. If people think it’s the greatest crime movie they’ve seen then I’m fine with that.
Hey Raddy,
That’s why we have the comments dude. (and you’re not coming off as bad)
thats true. and i dont mean to come off bad i just enjoy debating with people who like movies as much as i do
Hey Raddy
(Sorry about the mix up before). you said:
“youve just been ranting about how people love this movie so much. all im saying his who cares if they do”
Because I’m a blogger, and bloggers write about what’s on their mind.
Hey MKFreak2
You said:
“I’ve never heard anybody on the online sphere compare The Dark Knight to Goodfellas, Battle Royale, Apocalypse Now, or Aliens in terms of darkness, grittiness, or “classicness”. I’ve never heard anybody”
Neither have I. But I have read many that claim it to be the “darkest” and “grittiest” movie they’ve ever seen. When you say that, you compare it to all movies. Grittiest and darkest COMIC BOOK movie I can understand. If you say EVER… then you’re comparing it to those movies I mentioned
hey john, im assuming that comment you addressed to randy was supposed to be for me. no im not saying we should never right anything. im all for opinions and reviews and all of that. but ever since your review it seems like youve just been ranting about how people love this movie so much. all im saying his who cares if they do
I’ve never heard anybody on the online sphere compare The Dark Knight to Goodfellas, Battle Royale, Apocalypse Now, or Aliens in terms of darkness, grittiness, or “classicness”. I’ve never heard anybody
Really, this post seems a little useless. Every new big movie is gonna have hype surrounding it, but everybody is entitled to their opinion. If they think it’s the greatest crime drama ever made, let them think that. You can go watch Usual Suspects again, whatever.
Well said John, i guess i was mistaken as to what your whole point of what that post was about. Thanks for clearing it up.
yes i haven’t seen the film ,yet. but i don’t think the praise is bull.
Hey Matt S
The thing is, my post isn’t about how Dark Knight isn’t good.
My main point is that I think Dark Knight is so good that it stands on its own merits and doesn’t need made up things brought in to justify why we should like the movie.
Do i think it gets over hyped? Yes a little bit, but that’s just my opinion. I only take issue when the over-hyping goes into areas that it doesn’t need to go into (Calling it one of the darkest and “grittiest” films of all time… a crime drama classic… yadda yadda yadda).
I don’t mind if someone wants to say Dark Knight it the greatest movie of all time… that’s their opinion and that’s great… but I take issue when that person feels the need to make stuff up about it.
John, you’re absolutely right, I did miss the whole point you were trying to make about comparing the grittiness of “The Dark Knight” to other movies. I seemed to have missed the “of all time” part of that bullet , glad I could help drive your point home (I guess).
And sorry to sound like one of those “frusterating” people, i guess i should have chosen my words a little better. I didnt mean to insinuate that you didnt like The Dark Knight, i just thought it seemed like you were bringing up negative things that you hadn’t mentioned before, to stifle all the positive hype. But thank you for actually explaining why you hadnt touched on those things before. I stand corrected. Keep up the good work.
Hey LeeLoo
HAHA!!! That’s the best comment I’ve read all day!
tdk is absolutely the greatest friggin movie ive never seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Matt S
The terrible handling of the mobsters wasn’t touched on in my review because it was a minor point. (I also never touched on Michael Caine really). I bring it up now because of the arguement some people try to make that Batman is a classic Crime Drama. Ok, if we’re going to talk in that context, then taking about the mobsters becomes much more relevant. Dark Knight is nothing like a crime drama, and so talking about the mobsters part in the overall scheme of things wasn’t relevant.
And you said:
“unfairly compare the grittiness of a PG-13 movie to hard R movies”
You missed my point completely. I’m saying you CAN’T compare Dark Knight to those movies… but several fanboys reviews explicitly say it is one of the darkest and “grittiest” movies of all time. So you see, you’re making my point exactly.
You also said:
“you may be exaggerating to make it sound like it isnt amazing”
It’s really frustrating when people try to argue with you about things you never said. I have said over and over again how good Dark Knight is. I gave it a bloody 8.5 out of 10. In this very post I said “it’s fantastic”, “I loved it” and “It’s a great movie”
So tell me again how I’m trying to exaggerate about how it’s NOT a amazing????
John,
I see what you’re saying about people out and out LYING about the film being dark and gritty etc but isn’t that in and of itself subjective, just like someone’s opinion? What is dark and gritty to someone may not be to you, isn’t it like everything else (in film specifically but in general as well) where differen’t people consider things in a different way? For instance I consider M. Night Shyamalan’s films to be horror and yet I have had discussions on other sites with people where attributing that genre tag never even entered their minds with regards to his films.
Hey Randy,
Please read comments already left. I already said:
”
Hey Slushie Man,
First of all, I did specifically say in my post that this was just my subjective opinion.
Secondly, I never said people shouldn’t love it. I myself loved it. HOWEVER… in loving it, some people are saying things that just aren’t factually true
How dark it is (nothing compared to real dark movies)
How violent it is (nothing compared to real violent movies)
That it’s a crime drama classic (no)
The film is great. But it’s great for what it really is. There is no need for people to be making stuff up about it to justify why they like it so much.
Love the movie as much as you want… that’s totally cool. Just don’t board line LIE about it”
Also, all film and all issues related to film are subjective. Does that mean we should never write anything?
Two things:
One, I find it a bit disconcerning that you never once mentioned, in your review, that the criminals in “The Dark Knight” were “terrible” or that you had any problem with their acting. Your review was pretty in depth and touched on many aspects of the film, both positive and negative, but this specifically was never mentioned. “Terrible” is as strong a word as “masterpiece” in my book, yet something you found to be terrible in “The Dark Knight” wasn’t even touched on in your review. I find it very odd.
Two, I highly doubt that anyone who is claiming that “The Dark Knight” is dark and gritty, would ever compare it to movies like “Apocalypse Now” or “American Psycho”. No one in their right mind would at least. I’m sure they mean it is very dark, A for a superhero movie, B for a Batman movie, and C for being a PG-13 movie. I mean everyone was saying the last Harry Potter movie was dark and I never remember that being questioned, or compared to any rated R film. When they said it was dark everyone knew that they meant it was dark for a Harry Potter film, nothing like this was ever in question. Correct me if I’m wrong but if I remember right, someone asked you in the comments section of the review if it was safe to take his kids to and you said you wouldnt… A superhero movie that isn’t safe for your kids to watch… That’s pretty dark in my opinion.
I agree that a lot of the hype surrounding “The Dark Knight” is likely to be false (I haven’t had the privelage of seeing it yet, but can’t wait). Much of the praise it is getting does sound over the top, but it seems like in the wake of all of that, you are doing the opposite. It seems sort of like because you believe many people are exaggerating to make “The Dark Knight” sound amazing that you may be exaggerating to make it sound like it isnt amazing. When your review was mostly positive and you fail to mention something about the movie that you thought was “terrible”, or (in my opinion) unfairly compare the grittiness of a PG-13 movie to hard R movies, then this doesnt seem that unlikely. Is it possible that all this hype be having a reverse effect on you, John?
John,
You talk a lot about subjective opinions. why not just let everyone have there own about the dark knight. you have yours we have ours.
Hey Jay,
You asked:
“Then what does it tries to be???”
Well… it tries to be an action/adventure comic book movie. Which it does a kick ass job at.
There are a couple of jokes in the movie. Does that make it a comedy?
There is a scary moment or two in it. Does that make it a horror?
@ John,
“The Dark Knight never tries to be a Crime drama.”
Then what does it tries to be???
I feel the movie this time around is based within the parameters of Crime in Gotham City after the goons from Arkham Asylum ran amok at the end of BB?
9:30 A.M. Friday, July 18, 2008 ….My gut tells me its going to blow the roof off the theater and also bring in the highest weekend gross of ANY film of its kind. I feel bad for the X-Files coming up the next weekend.
@ Ric – Yeah, I’ve seen those quotes all over the place. Some of them were about comic movies, but a couple specifically said darkest ever and that sort of thing.
John,
Who are you quoting? Is someone really saying it’s as good as Goodfellas or The Godfather. I hope it’s better then Usual Suspects. I also think the reference to being “Dark” is comparing it to other comic books films. Maybe I’m wrong, but I haven’t read that outside of the Movie Blog. My vote for darkest film goes to
“OLDBOY”.
Hey Devils Advocate,
#1 – That’s a great idea and I’ll definitely think about it
#2 – Wall-E is (in my opinion) a better movie than Dark Knight.
But you can’t puss out and say I’m just saying that because I’m a Pixar fanboy. I’m a MUCH bigger Star Wars fan boy… but I’ll tell you right now Wall-E is better than anything star wars has done in the last 15 years.
Hey Dan,
Dude, read my post…. I can’t be angry against positive Batman reviews because I loved the movie and gave it a great review myself.
I don’t mind great reviews… that’s fine. Just tell the truth (ie the “darkness” and violence of it… etc. etc.)
I feel like I’m the only one who thinks Batman is a good enough movie on its own that it doesn’t need people making shit up about it to try to justify their love for it.
John, you seem like the only one who seems to be angry against positive batman reviews. I won’t be able to judge this until I see the movie. I do know that some very acclaimed critics have just loved this film.
John how about starting a new feature called ‘devils advocate’ (I’ll let you have the name :-p) where you can take some of the top films and discuss differing views about them ala your post earlier this year about why no country for old men wasn’t as great as it was made out to be and the current batman article. I think it would be good to get differing view points about films that seem to skew one way. You can look at bad aspects of good films and and good aspects of bad films, and if you want to give doug a brain aneurysm you can assign him a devils advocate column about the finer points of meet the spartans of the hottie and the nottie….
love the site and keep up the good work, just like rocket though i gotta call ya out on the unabashed love of wall-e while you’re willing to give a few lumps to TDK.
MAKE SURE TO CATCH THE DOORMAN: http://www.thedoormanmovie.com
Hey Rocket,
Well, I’m a Batman fanboy too. So there goes your arguement.
Also, I never said Wall-E was the greatest animated film of all time
Like The Dark Knight, I feel Wall-E is good enough to stand on its own without me having to make stuff up about it.
And for the record, I didn’t like Wall-E because I’m a pixar fanboy… I’m a Pixar Fanboy because I’ve loved all their films so far.
I’m a bigger star wars and Lucas Film fanboy than I am a pixar fanboy… but that doesn’t stop me for saying crap about the prequels or my criticisms about Indy 4 did it?
Yeah so… nice try.
Hey devils advocate
he’s a pixar fanboy
he’s praising wall-e the same way batman fanboys are praising the dark knight
First,
Great article, I love when you write this kind of stuff because you are so good at getting across a great point. I can’t say I agree or disagree just yet, because I haven’t seen the film.
Second,
On a side note, when you started listing some true darker movies, or grittier movies, or crime classics; it got me to missing those posts you used to do with movie recommendations. So when can we expect posts on the Best Classic Crime Dramas, or Greatest Darkest and/or Grittiest Films? I would love to fill up my Netflix list with those.
John I get your point of view but I still think Wall-e is the most over hyped film of the summer. It’s not even pixar’s best (ratatouille is still tops in my book) and I’d like you to play devil’s advocate and write a similarly themed article about wall-e and why the hyper praise for it is also bullshit.
I had heard a fair amount of #2 (no pun intended) and my eyebrows raised a little at that. Best Crime Drama? Really? Sometimes when you have The Sex, you remember it as being better than it was. Sure it was The Sex, but just because it was The Sex, doesn’t mean it was really that good.
I am really excited to see this movie, but I will be going in with my own grain of salt. My wife and I will likely see it in a couple of weeks when all the super excitement has died down and it becomes less likely that we will be annoyed by food court rejects.
Hey Slushie Man,
First of all, I did specifically say in my post that this was just my subjective opinion.
Secondly, I never said people shouldn’t love it. I myself loved it. HOWEVER… in loving it, some people are saying things that just aren’t factually true
How dark it is (nothing compared to real dark movies)
How violent it is (nothing compared to real violent movies)
That it’s a crime drama classic (no)
The film is great. But it’s great for what it really is. There is no need for people to be making stuff up about it to justify why they like it so much.
Love the movie as much as you want… that’s totally cool. Just don’t board line LIE about it
I see what you mean, John, I’ve seen this happen to a lot of summer movies, when the marketing really is that good, no matter what the movie really is people will flock to it by the hundreds…
Pirates of the Carribean: Dead Man’s Chest was one such case, Return of the King was also one of those particular cases, where the marketing hype didn’t exactly critical acclaim but man it does get results.
Videogames are the best examples…
Grand Theft Auto 4 was marketed as the gaming world Messiah, all perfect scores, 3 weeks and 6 million copies later, everybody realised that it’s really just a run-of-the-mill action title.
It happened with Gears of War, Halo 3, Assassin’s Creed and tons more…
One hand, it’s good to see that Batman as a character is getting as much attention and recognition as many of the main Marvel characters, namely Spiderman.
And since Batman Begins, everybody has long forgotten the days of Joel Schumchaer, the bat nipples and bat credit cards.
But on the other, let’s not overexaggerate… I haven’t seen yet, by the way.
I saw Dark Knight last night and thought it was everything everyone has been saying, and more.
Quite honestly John, why can’t you just let the people who love it, love it. The overhyped praise it’s getting, is NOT made up. It’s people genuinely loving the movie. Yeah, not everyone is going to feel the same way, but just because you don’t, doesn’t mean their praise is out and out false.
I’m surprised you took the whole ‘My opinion is right, all others are wrong’ approach, as you normally hate that kind of talk.
Lately, I been hating the guy who run the movie blog, because
It is dark and gritty for a comic film,
Then what the heck you talking about…
Your talking about its not violence, of course not because it is also focus on childrens, so they have to manipulate,
to me the make up is violence and the acting is a bit disturbing, so thats all violence !
Like be smart when you review,
it has to manipulate for kids and not to cross over the line…
Solid article Gio. The last week or so I’ve been getting this feeling in my gut that some of these critics are setting me up for a big let down. I’ve even heard some guys calling it “Godfather II”.
I haven’t seen the movie yet, but PUHLEZE.
people are thinking this movie to be the second coming,and i must admit i think my overall enjoyment of the movie will be (if it’s not already) compromised
it’s really because if i see this movie and it’s not “the best comic book movie” i’ll be disappointed. this is why i think releasing reviews in the information generation almost a month before the movie came out was both a good and a bad thing. cause most of the public had to hear from everyone else that this movie was a masterpiece, the movie just swelled to ridiculous proportions.
it’s good that so many people are awaiting this movie, but the internet seems to over-hype things when they come out. snakes on a plane was a perfect example of this, and i think that even if the dark knight is not the best, people would initially put it in the “masterpiece” circle just cause
I dont try and give any movie Im hyped about more praise then it should get. Your correct that most of what fanboys are saying is bull shit. Did i think Ledger was not gonna be good as Joker …YES. Then I saw the teaser trailer and thought OK, he has a good line but what about his performance? Then when I seen the first trailer I felt OK his performace looks great in those parts but, what about the rest of the film? The point is ..am I excited about the film…YES….will it be good……YES…..Is it the best movie ever made…..NO.
Funny
I feel same way about the way you praise Wall-E
That movie was a 6 at best.
This is a really interesting commentary no doubt, but it won’t really ring true or not to the general movie going populace until this weekend when the masses finally get to see it! Although I must say Richard Roeper compared it to “The Departed” on The Ebert and Roeper show over the weekend when they did an advance review of it. He even feels the film is worthy of a best picture Oscar.To point out what you have always said, movie watching is a subjective experience.Different people see things in a different way. While many are raving about Hellboy 2, I found the film lacking in terms of story telling.Visualy terrific? yes. Ron Perlman great? Yes But first and foremost for me is that I want a compeling story and Hellboy 2 dosen’t have that!
Thank God. People have been pissing me off all month with this “DARK KNIGHT IS GOD” crap. I expect to go in and spend two and a half hours watching Batman kick the Joker’s ass. Anything more than that will be a cherry on top.
Hey Nautica,
If you’re talking about the original with Brandon Lee… then much much much less.
john, is it dark & gritty as say “the crow”? or less?