@JonDonnelly 'that old lady was who played Jean Grey'  made me laugh - sounds like beavis and butthead ....   that old lady sucks !  superman sucks !!!

C'mon man, don't beat around the bush. Tell us how you REALLY feel.

@The Quiet Man well in my opinion i don't want a dark superman he is suppose to be a beacon of hope plus if they were to do a superman/batman movie there would be no contrast between them they are suppose to represent light and dark of the hero world   

 @JayRelling Yup.  Superman Returns- Weak story, very bad casting.  Kevin Spacey is a great actor but a TERRIBLE Lex Luthor.  The costume was a disaster and Kate Bosworth was miscast as Lois.  And someone pointed out that the sequence when Clark was a kid on the farm, they had him in glasses.  Why?  It made no sense for him to wear them as a kid.

 @JayRelling Well said, Jay. CR, almost single-handedly, made those movies epic. The only reason I don't give him full credit is because I hold William's theme and score in very high regard. Many of the story elements were ridiculous, and the acting was at a b-movie level. CR's presence and talent most definitly elevated the status of those films.

 @Crusifious The Glasses I never understood either, either Singer was trying to say that clark used to wear glasses and as his power emerged he didn't need them or even then they wanted to hide his blue eyes.  Either was just odd in terms of superman.   As for the suit, the doc didn't rip it, if he had how would superman have worn it a few days later.  If you listen to what the staff is saying you hear the doc say "here it is" or "found it"  can't remember exactly but then the open his suit.  That was just the way the suit was put on.

That is true for the most part.  But during the silver age of Superman, my era, Superman's powers were limited only by his will.  Nothing was truly impossible for him (not including Superman Prime, the ultimate "version of Superman").  I have been told that the directors intention was to show that his point was to show this, that through his will, he could remove the limits.  What completely makes no sense is what you mention.  If it is that incapacitating to him, and he doesn't have the "will" to overcome it and gets beaten up by 4 guys, yet he can then lift something infused with Kryptonite that probably weighed as much as the entire island of Manhattan.  During the silver age Superman has shifted, from the original Siegel and Shuster vision where he couldn't even fly, to the most powerful incarnation, the Silver Age version, and then back to the golden age level again which is stronger than the 1980's and late 90's Warner Bros cartoon one, and roughly half as strong as the silver age one. It takes two modern era Supermen, to equal the strength of one silver age one; the Silver age Superman was so powerful, he could literally hurl planets. In an official D.C. encyclopedia, to stop a dangerous DC villain, he destroyed an entire unpopulated star system, including the star.  . In Superman 13, just released, using special machinery, he bench-pressed a weight the equivalent of the planet Earth for 5 consecutive days and broke a single drop of sweat-- and only then because he was underground that entire time and away from the sun. To test his upper limits the scientists involved decided they'd need a wormhole generator that would threaten the planet, so they stopped testing. Needless to say, being from that era, that is the Superman I identify with, and have been bitter about weakening him ever since.  There is no other superhero ( sorry Hulk fans, I love him to, but he couldn't touch Superman.  Regardless of strength, which the hulk's is finite, study psychology and  you will realize anger has a limit, therefore, the hulk's strength is limited.  Then there is speed, ) This next section, borrowed from another site answers most of these questions. What other ways could Superman stop the Hulk? : Blast superbreath so hard and fast Hulk asphyxiates.  Throw building-sized boulders from very far away using telescopic vision to aim.  Lift the ground under Hulk's feet carrying him into space.  Circle around him at high speed trapping him in a vortex. Remember, Hulk can't fly and can't leap if he's not on the ground.  Fight underwater.  Fight in a volcano.  Dig a trench around Hulk fast, fill it with a million tons of crude oil, and pummel Hulk while he thrashes around submerged and unable to see while Superman uses yet another power, x-ray vision.  Freeze Hulk's throat the moment he opens his mouth so he chokes and passes out.Inhale KO gas, punch Hulk's solar-plexus, and exhale it all into Hulk's face when he inhales.  Ice the ground under his feet so he can't swing his fist without falling. And of course there's his heat vision as mentioned already On and on.  So the Silver Age Superman's power was essentially unlimited.  The argument of specific radioactivity and his weakness to Kryptonite is scientifically speaking, very weak.  The writers felt that Superman had to have weaknesses and believed readers need ed to have enemies capable of giving him a real fight.  I like the old days.  It is like the difference between Jean Claude Van Damme  and Stephen Seagal.   Van Damme gets beat up the whole movie, then somehow summons the will to ultimately win.  Stephen Seagal just annihilates anyone he fights ( which he really could with 99% of the population.  If you know his history, you know he is one of the baddest men in the world.  As a former SWAT team member, and personal protection specialist, there is a world of difference between what you will see in training for the MMA world ( which I was a part of many years ago) and training to kill your enemy quickly and quietly without weapons.  The Israeli Mossad, whom I have had the honor of training with, is a perfect example of this.  No one in the MMA world could last 15 seconds against a member of the  Mossad.  They train to kill, not to fight, therein lies the difference.  I know this is a bit of a tangent, but it has to do with mindset.  Give Superman the attitude of Wolverine and you would get an absolutely unstoppable force.  It isn't about strength specifically, it is about power, which is measured in terms of speed and distance and time.  Superman can move at speeds that are nearly unimaginable, if he can move at light speed or near it, (186,000 miles per second!) or any part of his body that speed, the power of his punch alone would literally annihilate the planet.  At light speed, a piece of dust hits an object with the force of Megatons.  That should put things in perspective.

 @Crusifious  @AaronGone  Maybe it's because I'm a film buff, but when a film I'm interested comes out I always know who wrote it and who's directing it.  Acting, directing writing go hand in hand.  When one is lacking the movie is lopsided. 

 @Crusifious   Screenplay, Acting and Direction work hand in hand.  You can have a decent actor and screenplay but a crap director can ruin it.  Not many actors are allowed free reign in their performance.  The best example  I can give from my perspective is Hayden Christensen, he's not a bad actor but was crap in Star Wars under Lucas.

 @AaronGone Aaron, what I thought was this.  It was like watching three movies, Ras Al Gul, The Joker, and Bane, and Batman was an ancillary character.   The first movie was the most Batman focused, and I think Bale did good with what he had, but being older, and growing up with Batman ( and Superman and my Marvel favorites in the 60's and 70's) The silver age Superman basically was a god, his power was basically unlimited, so that is the one I identify most.  This is the problem with all of the comic book movies in my opinion.  The creators of the movie are first, trying to make money.  This is twofold, trying to reach as broad an audience as possible, bringing in new blood, while not offending the traditionalists, and losing their firm base (it is a mirror image of politics, and who is happy with politicians, some we love, some we hate, but how many are we ambivalent about?).  The two desires are nearly diametrically opposed.  We all have our preconceptions if we are comic fans.  A movie only fan has an easier time of it.  Like I mentioned before, I can't watch movies about cops, or movies like SWAT.  That was my career, specializing in building entry and felony fugitive warrant searches ( fast roping onto buildings, rappelling down the side, whatever it took, then the ballet begin.  It has to be constantly rehearsed, and must be executed so precisely it is like a ballet, except if you screw up, people die, maybe you!).  I am too critical, and just can't enjoy them.  I spend all my time saying "that is the dumbest, stupidest thing etc..." so I won't watch them.  With sci fi of any kind, if you can go in without preconceived notions, it is better, but it seems that everything has been done and redone, so not having those preconceptions is almost impossible.  What the heck, it's $10 and 2 hours.  I'll usually go and give it a shot with any comic movie and hope for the best. Sometimes I am glad, other times I think I should have just gone fishing.

 @Godzillaf   Bale was the main downfall of the nolan batman's in my opinion, I liked the movies but Batman is supposed to be damaged but never show it, bale was way to emotional.  As far as his role in Man of Steel  you have many how go on and on on how it's his film and even some who think he's directing.  He helped write the story with goyer, but goyer alone wrote the screenplay and of course zack snyder is directing, nolan is producing but has spoken on the fact that he's more their for technical guidance not story.

@qaliber In order for people to care about a person, we have to relate, sympathize, empathize with them. As humans, we can't understand completely what it would be like to have these powers. The main reason why the creators even made supes background to be the lone child, orphan and then raised by salt of the earth people is to give him pathos. The problem is, as far as the movies go as well as many comic books, is that he's too wholesome. Nobody with emotions should be capable of being a PERFECT light, and this is what I think the director and writers are trying to show us. A being that is flawed and scared about what he is and what he can do, and instead of being corrupted or frightened to use his abilities, he chooses to be a hero. This is what is important and different to me about this movie. His path to being a hero isn't set in stone, at least not in his mind. I just love the fact thatwe get to see him make mistakes and struggle to do what's right, because that is exactly what we all try to do! A man that wants to do right.

 @qaliber Thats a very good point there. I have to say that i never had an issue with how powerful and different Superman his from us, to me, thats what makes him so fascinating. Thats what i liked to see as a kid with the CR movies, and thats why i love superhero movies in general, that they have all these powers and how they use them to help. I was seduced by Superman because of his great powers, and because he his good, because he does good with them, thats why i like him.

 @qaliber Nice work man.  We need good guys, even if they are not real.  We need someone to look up to, and kids can look up to the nobility of Superman.  I'm a Christian, so I have God, but that is me, not everybody else.  I love your take on this.

 @qaliber Superman is hardly a paragon in terms of his psychological state or personality...films aside he is shown to display very "human" emotions and reaction. No one is stating relatablity entails making him whiny and emo, but we have canon evidence to show that Superman does think and to an extent "angst" about his actions, and the things he decides to do with his powers.

 @qaliber This is something I often get into debates on.  Within entertainment, be it film, book or comics why is it everyone thinks there is no room for multiple types of characters.    There can be relatable ones, dark and brooding ones and the ones like Superman.  A character that inspires us to be better and to be blunt Shames us, that we realize were selfish greedy children.  The Jor-El trailer put it best "they will follow behind you, they will stumble, and they will fall.  But one day, they will join you in the sun."  As far as Man of Steel, most hear the word dark and automatically think he's going to be brooding and angry.  while it does appear to be some emotional elements causing him pain, your father dying, finding out you're an alien and your people are dead and the only ones who survived are evil,  think would depress anyone.  But it seems he overcomes it to stand up for his new world.  When they say dark (and snyder has even spoke on this)  it is the world that is darker.  For a long while now Superman has always been shown in a kind of Utopia setting.  Metropolis has been shown as kind of an opposite to gotham.  That worked in the 70's and in the comics and cartoons.   If a god-like being appeared, said he was an alien from another planet, he would be met with mistrust and suspicion.  Not to mention that others of his race are trying to subjugate to world.

 @AndrewArnold Absolutely.  At least a lot who post here admit that they are Superman, or comic movie fans, but not comic book people.  In the 70's when I grew up reading comics, I always fantasized about a movie made about my favorite comics.  Then, when Superman the Movie commercials appeared, I was out of my mind (I was 9)!  The tag line read "you will believe a man can fly".  Compared to modern special effects, it obviously can't measure up, but that didn't matter. On the big screen it was amazing.  I left that movie with the same feeling I left with after seeing Star Wars for the first time, I begged my dad to go right back in and see it again.  We did!  My dad was so cool.  You are right about Batman and Superman. In the Justice League, Superman's biggest issue with Batman is he doesn't like Batman's methods, and more, his ideology.  He sees Batman as wanting revenge for his parents death more than justice for the people.  Batman IS more troubled than Superman, even though Superman is an alien and different than us.  He could be a god (or a Zod) but instead, he works to make the world a better place.  Does he have doubts and troubles?  Absolutely, but in the end, he almost always chooses the selfless choice, putting others above himself ( I have read all the different dimensions and all of the different story lines, but I'm referring to the essential Superman character).  What did he do at the end of Superman II?  He gave up his love, he sacrificed his hearts greatest desire for the good of mankind.  Then he apologizes to the President and says "sorry I was gone so long, it will never happen again".